Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Check out the "herp Law" forum-the USFWS is moving to ban the importation and INTERSTATE TRANSPORT of pythons and boas!!

We need to either wake up or lose everything, folks!
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Well, this is our governemnt hard at work again.
Our borders are porous, people who mean to do us harm can and do wander in unchecked. But don't you bring a boa in here!
Unbelieveable! As a firearms enthusiast, as well as a herper, I can personally attest to our freedoms being chipped away at on many different fronts. Not good....not good at all.

Seems to me there is more a problem of dogs being 'injurious' to people.

When they are speaking of 'injurious,' I believe they are refering to the damage the species can cause in the wild (In this case, attaining large numbers and eating local wildlife). However, this still makes the arguement sounds silly to me, given that in most areas of the US these animals cannot surive, and even if they could for awhile, would probably be too unhealthy to propogate. As far as I know, Florida is the only place that has had a problem with feral pythons and boas, etc. But they are regulating that now... which is why this whole ban is just insane to me, nowhere else has there been an issue that I'm aware of.
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.0 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang.)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

What would be the purpose of this? Do Fish and Wildlife Agents not have enough to do prosecuting people breaking laws that have principle behind them?

This would have absolutely no basis in logic, morality or the public good. So what on earth could possibly be the motivation in forcing literally hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens to give up their perfectly safe hobby or become law breakers. What would these "Big Brother" advocates have us do with all the animals we already have? Kill them of course because they give not a wit about animals. They only care about limiting our freedom. Why else could they be discussing such a broad sweeping act? Why?

The reality of the situation is this. We have lawmakers, most of them elected, who want to take away each freedom we enjoy one at a time. They want our guns. They want to force each of us to drive a Yugo. They want us all to even buy one certain light bulb. They want to tell you exactly how to raise your children. They want to imprison you if you say something that someone might be offended at. They call that "hate" speech.

Guess what political party nearly every single one of them, the adversaries of all our freedoms, is a member of? Humm???
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Boaphile Home
All Original/Boaphile Plastics
The Boa Network

Jeff I take it your swaying to the left? lol
Ralph

THEY'LL START OUT GETTING MY GUNS, ONE BULLET AT A TIME! AND I HAVE PLENTY!
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Ty
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

To answer your question -- it's the "Less Government" "Less Regulations" people, of course.
Nothing but a bunch of Fascists wrapped up in the Constitution.
We no longer have a Democracy. We have a Hypocrisy!!!
If it doesn't fit within their narrow view of things, then it's bad and has to be gotten rid of.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

sad but true.
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1.0 ghost
0.1 het albino
1.0 dh sunglow 66% het anery
1.1 anery het albino
1.0 motley 50% het albino
0.1 anery 66% het albino
0.1 anery
0.1 circleback laddertail

To drive the trade underground and make the Everglades situation a friggin' nightmare compared to what it is...........

Damn Democrates!!

This is not just the democrats my friend. Republicans have passed their fair share of laws in the past 8 years. Both sides want more control. So to make this a party issue is just silly. It is a system issue. People in Washington think that they need to pass more and more bills and laws so they feel like they have a something to do. They think that we want them to go and make more rules for us to follow I guess

Is there a web site you can go to and check this out? That would really suck. What can people really do about it? If someone could post more info up here that would be great.

I'm not a gun person personally, but there's no doubt the NRA is effective in maintaining their rights.
We should SERIOUSLY considering an alignment with such an organization on these Constitutional issues.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>I'm not a gun person personally, but there's no doubt the NRA is effective in maintaining their rights.
>>We should SERIOUSLY considering an alignment with such an organization on these Constitutional issues.
>>jsc
>>-----
>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer

Ummmm....HCU?
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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

Yes. I just stated I'm in favor of HCU. I live in Texas and know first hand how it works.
I hereby volunteer my time and resources to do whatever I'm able, for this cause and for HCU's general mission and principles.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

If anyone knows where we can follow this directly, that would be awesome; or continual updates here? I breed small time, but that helps me to pay for my 37 'kids,' and their food. They ban interstate sales and I will be extremely disappointed, and that is an understatement.
If the herp community bans together to take a stand, I want to be a part of it!!
Thanks
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.0 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang.)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

this is ridiculos i guarantee dogs kill/mame more people in the US than boas and pythons. where i live we have a big problem with wild /stray dogs these arnt the freindly domesticated dogs we have as pets these are more like wolves they can carry rabies and do attack people ok their is a small population of boas and pythons in the everglades thats the only place they can live the whole year why dont they worry about the millions of stray /wild dogs that live all over the US.

hey if the right people spoke up(big breeders and huge business that a huge protion of income comes from these like ZOOMED TREX EXOterra hell rubbermaid..lol

we have a big backing in these companys so why dont we use them
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1.1 jungle carpets
1.1 sumatran bloods
1.1 het albino rtb

Speaking of harmful invasive species -- While we're at it, lets place the same regulations on the domestic house cat. Now there's an example of one of the most harmful invasive species known to man.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

the border of any state or is this just the sale of boas and pythons.Example if I moved to another state I couldnt bring my boa withme.Or is it just the sale of boas from state to state?
If this happens wouldnt that mean the end of most reptile expos?
I dont speak legalese.
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Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.

Yes, I believe that the Lacy Act applies to commercial trade/interstate commerce.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

This will harm many businesses and individuals. The USFWS service asks for information to be submitted concerning the trade in boas, pythons and related items. (as if they don't know- Remember these are the same people who say they are 'overwhelmed' processing CITES permits for same) I'd suggest getting big companies like Fed Ex involved because they also stand to lose business if shipping is outlawed.

These guys at USF&W are public servants, the way I understand it.
They work for us. We pay their salaries with our tax dollars.
My question is this -- What kind of people have we got up there in Washington working for us, if they spend their time coming up with these hair brained schemes, designed to protect us and to protect our natural heritage, from ourselves?
Anybody with half a grain of natural science knowledge knows the animals in question cannot possibly survive within the Continental United States, with that small geographic exception of South Florida. Therefore, it should be a matter for the State of Florida to deal with. If Florida chooses to close it's International Port of Entry to the largest Boids, then so be it. There are plenty of other Ports of Entry for Customs and Fish and Wildlife to monitor and to enforce existing laws.
Personally, I think were paying those Phd's at USF&W way too much for way too little. Maybe we should do a cost analysis and performance review on them?
They don't sound real bright to me. Are we're getting or money's worth?
jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Of course they are a real danger. Why, Boa people have been doing everything they can to acclimate these things to the colder North American weather.

- Ever hear of "Snow Boas"? It snows in most of the country at some time or other. Every one is in danger.
- Aren't there "Snow Balls" too? Some kind of crazed Ball Python Morph no doubt designed around the cooler climate to survive, no thrive, and menace the native species as well as poodles everywhere.
- "Blood Boas"? You know what their mission is.
- "Hypo Boas" are of course meant to harm those who take drugs using "Hypo"dermic needles.
- Motley Boas will be causing confusion everywhere!
- "Monster Tail" Boas are of course going to scare people in the night. Most people are afraid of Monsters you know...
- "Ghost Boas"? Nothing more need be said.
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Boaphile Home
All Original/Boaphile Plastics
The Boa Network

""These guys at USF&W are public servants, the way I understand it.
They work for us. We pay their salaries with our tax dollars.
My question is this -- What kind of people have we got up there in Washington working for us, if they spend their time coming up with these hair brained schemes, designed to protect us and to protect our natural heritage, from ourselves?
Anybody with half a grain of natural science knowledge knows the animals in question cannot possibly survive within the Continental United States, with that small geographic exception of South Florida. Therefore, it should be a matter for the State of Florida to deal with. If Florida chooses to close it's International Port of Entry to the largest Boids, then so be it. There are plenty of other Ports of Entry for Customs and Fish and Wildlife to monitor and to enforce existing laws.
Personally, I think were paying those Phd's at USF&W way too much for way too little. Maybe we should do a cost analysis and performance review on them?""

As I posted elsewhere, we have in the USFWS a bungling bunch of liberal, unelected bureaucrats that do not 'serve' the people. They now delay processing CITES permits for months and months with no semblance of regard to the hardship these delays cause. Now they are attempting to divide everyone with these scare tactics in order to get most of us to capitulate to placing large Python and Eunectes species on the Injurious Species List-- Which is what they really want, as a response to Florida's pissweak cry to them for help.. And we'll be glad to (throw the Bob Clarks to the wolves) give it to them in order to save our own interests. That is the way the game is played.

Starts bottom of the third column

http://kingsnake.com/FWSReview.pdf

It appears they are much more interested in possible wild colonies of boas, and their possible eradication. And any fiscal damage doing this would cause (financial impact).
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

It's been brought up many times that dogs are more dangerous / cause more damage what ever .This is an irreverent point. Dogs are coming under heavy fire especially Pit bulls but right now it's tougher to go against the dog people then the snake guys. It's not a question to the anti ownership people of these animals being more dangerous then snakes any more then it is to anti hand gun people if you carry a 9 mm or a 45. The thing is they want it all taken away.

Reptiles, snakes in particular happen to be the easiest target. Law makers aren't looking to bypass democracy and stomp on snake breeders for no reason. Their looking to do what keeps them in office and gains them the most benefits.The popular thing. Right now the groups that would like to destroy the exotic animal world are doing what it takes to win political favoritism . Their proving that what they want is the popular thing.

Simply, their out working exotic owners 100 to 1. Nothing is getting taken away we'er giving it away. While collectors are memorizing pundit squares and yapping about the "market" anti ownership factions are organizing fund raisers , sending out petitions and lobbying for legislative change. They are extremely pro active . To the contraire exotic keepers seemly never do anything until forced. Before special interest groups have a chance to introduce anti ownership legislation private owners and businesses should be getting a plan in order to introduce Pro ownership legislation and go on the offensive. In all honesty from what I've seen of the industry it seems many of it's participants would rather put their energy towards the narrow sighted goals of cutting each others throats for short term business gains as opposed to forming a unified front to defend against the ever mounting political challenges. The problems we face are because of our own doing or more accurately lack of doing. Back in the 70's the industry faced a similar legislative threat and Louie Porous organized a campaign that not only defeated the bill but completely annihilated it. Hopefully we can ban together and once again win the difference is if this new threat is defeated I feel the time would be right to go on the offensive and introduce a plan that would give us some protection against future legislative attacks. In all honesty I don't see this ban going thru but what I do see is the possibility of a revised version getting thru that would make things tougher for us and leave the door open for further trouble in the near future. We have to work as hard to protect what we have as the people who want to take it away are working.

Ernie Eison
Westwoodreptiles.com

To speak up like the herp community needs to we need the large herp related bussiness's to help like chad brown from pro exotics he would be a great spokesmen but im sure he is also extremely busy. ive kept reptiles for 14 years and didnt know until about 3 months ago he plays for the seahawks, talk about a perfect spokesmen someone the public is already familiar with and has strong ties to the herp community,Zoomed im sure would lose huge amounts of bussiness revenues along with all of the related bussiness's these are the people who we need to help make our voices louder.

on the comment website they wanted to know ecomic facts amount of revenues related to boas pythons.annual sales ,local laws,what it would cost to eradicate the non native populations , and impact of non native populations.

in an already bad economy they wont be able to pass anything that has the potential to make it worse, put up how much your bussiness revenue make whether full time or hobby, i would have to say that boa and python sales at least exceed 100 million a year then you have to think about all the inter connected bussiness, rodent breeders cage manufacturers thermometer makers light manufacturers all of the accesories we buy hides, bowls etc...its not just the sale of the snakes they need to realize. if they were to pass this law their would be a huge drop in new herpers thus a huge drop in new business for those related companies.
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1.1 jungle carpets
1.1 sumatran bloods
1.1 het albino rtb

Yes. I agree, that Wild West, Every Man For Himself attitude has got to go.
We need to create a Self Governing Professional Society of standards and practices to ensure a future for our interests.
I proposed this about ten years ago. Hopefully, it's time has come.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Well said Ernie !
I doubt many even took the time to comprehend what you actually said in your post.
As always the Masses will wait for someone else to build the bandwagon then they'll all jump on for the ride.

Charter Statement of the ME GENERATION !

>>It's been brought up many times that dogs are more dangerous / cause more damage what ever .This is an irreverent point. Dogs are coming under heavy fire especially Pit bulls but right now it's tougher to go against the dog people then the snake guys. It's not a question to the anti ownership people of these animals being more dangerous then snakes any more then it is to anti hand gun people if you carry a 9 mm or a 45. The thing is they want it all taken away.
>>
>>Reptiles, snakes in particular happen to be the easiest target. Law makers aren't looking to bypass democracy and stomp on snake breeders for no reason. Their looking to do what keeps them in office and gains them the most benefits.The popular thing. Right now the groups that would like to destroy the exotic animal world are doing what it takes to win political favoritism . Their proving that what they want is the popular thing.
>>
>>Simply, their out working exotic owners 100 to 1. Nothing is getting taken away we're giving it away. While collectors are memorizing pundit squares and yapping about the "market" anti ownership factions are organizing fund raisers , sending out petitions and lobbying for legislative change. They are extremely pro active . To the contraire exotic keepers seemly never do anything until forced. Before special interest groups have a chance to introduce anti ownership legislation private owners and businesses should be getting a plan in order to introduce Pro ownership legislation and go on the offensive. In all honesty from what I've seen of the industry it seems many of it's participants would rather put their energy towards the narrow sighted goals of cutting each others throats for short term business gains as opposed to forming a unified front to defend against the ever mounting political challenges. The problems we face are because of our own doing or more accurately lack of doing. Back in the 70's the industry faced a similar legislative threat and Louie Porous organized a campaign that not only defeated the bill but completely annihilated it. Hopefully we can ban together and once again win the difference is if this new threat is defeated I feel the time would be right to go on the offensive and introduce a plan that would give us some protection against future legislative attacks. In all honesty I don't see this ban going thru but what I do see is the possibility of a revised version getting thru that would make things tougher for us and leave the door open for further trouble in the near future. We have to work as hard to protect what we have as the people who want to take it away are working.
>>
>>Ernie Eison
>>Westwoodreptiles.com
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TnK

Who knows how this started, and really we don't have time to care at the moment. We need to start sending more money to HCU and others like them so they can send people to Washington who has knowledge of laws and legal systems. We need people to speak for us that know how to speak to those people. Just sending letters is not going to do it. We need research teams that will flood them with well documented data over herp ownership. We need qualified people like doctors and lawyers and lobbyist who are going to get their paycheck for being on call to help us when things like this happen. They need to get this out in the media too, they are not al bad. If we can pay to put the right spin on it Americans will all support us. We need at least a few national herp societies and we will all need to pay for their help. How has this hobby been around so long with out them?
Anyone with a good idea and wants help please call me
918-331-6648

I help in every way I can to help. If we all put in some time we can do this. Whether that be time working on a website for the cause, or if it means putting in some overtime hours to make a little extra money to send out.