Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I want to know what if anything is being done about this right now, other than a suggestion to write a letter. Many people do not feel comfortable writing their own letter. I just think there is more that we can do to maximize the likelihood of folks making a written contribution regarding this situation.

Fish and Wildlife is investigating the possibility of making it illegal to sell and Boa or Python across state lines in the United States. Read more details at the following link:

NEWS FLASH!

The link can also be found at the top of this page.

My question is this? Isn't there something real we can do to organize and make it easier for everyone, and I mean everyone, to make a real written expression of their concern about such an action? Perhaps a sample letter that could be printed, signed and send into to Fish and Wildlife? An on-line petition?

Perhaps more detailed responses from "experts" who would explain the fact that nearly all Boas and Pythons would not have any chance of surviving in the continental United States. The only exception perhaps being some parts of the southern half of Florida. Boas for one just would not survive with that possible exception. So why the concern about "interstate commerce" of Boas?

I will write a letter but I would like to see so much more done. A more concerted effort to make it easy for folks to write without feeling intimidated by the process. Without that feeling that one little letter can't make that much difference. Perhaps some way to show accountability of each and every one of us.

I am willing to write, testify or whatever, at my expense to help persuade those who will make this decision. I just think that there really needs to be a huge outpouring of the defense of our first hobby and second businesses that we virtually all are in on at one level or another.

What are we doing? Let's do something NOW!

Jeff Ronne Sr.
The Boaphile
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Boaphile Home
All Original/Boaphile Plastics
The Boa Network

I already wrote to my local news stations saying that they should do a story on this. I figure the more support we can gain the better. We definitely need to educate these people though. What they (the USFW) "claim" to be worrying about is basically feral boas/pythons/anacondas and them harming native species and humans. I live about 10 minutes from their main HQ so I would have no problem speaking with them, only problem is that all those govt people like to only hear from those with many acronyms after their name.

I would normally say stay out of the media....as they have the same agenda to take our rights away...they are usually buying into animal activist views....but THIS most certainly needs drastic action Now!!!
Getting this out in the open so everyone in the USA can see exactly how they are trying to control and take away our rights!
I believe the majority of reptile owners has not even heard this news yet...there needs to be headlines in newspapers and radio stations need to start putting this on the air....maybe contact some of the talk show stations....Talk about this to everyone you know...get the word out about how unfair taking our rights away is!

This fight will take alot of capital....of which I lack in greatly...lol....

What needs to be done: IS TO...

Put together a National Reptile organization, then even our small contributions can compile to help in this fight!

United we stand - Divided we fall.

Andy Federico
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Try HCU-TX.org, we are already underway, we need to expand to other states, HCU-Calif., HCU-Fla., all 50 states. Check it out, our problem is your problem. Together, we can find solutions.
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Todd Hughes

We're 100 % with you Jeff.

Whatever it takes.

Just let us know.

Brian

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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

Time to get a professional spokesperson -- a Lobbyist.

News and TV exposure are fine, as long as we're in control.
It could easily go the other way. Shock and fear, extreme and extraordinary content is what sells. We've all seen times when facts and reality meant nothing to a story.

We want exactly the opposite. Our argument is for reasonable, rational, logical, common sense consideration -- not very news worthy.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I'm just a little guy but I can and will call my congressman on Monday Morning.EVERYBODY NEEDS TO

If I knew who to contact, I would write a letter....but a concentrated effort would be much better!

Chris Nicholas

Senators (select your state, then click the link for each senator in your state) - http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Representatives (click your state, then click each rep's name for their webpage) - http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml#nj
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Kevin Blumenthal
www.blumenboas.com

The way this needs to be approached to get their attention is the financial impact of this change. This law will impact more than just the collectors. This will in fact effect pet stores breeders of rodents, people that these people buy there food and clothes from. This is a major problem. Everyone that has a financial investment needs to stand up and be counted. The law makers will not see the full impact of this unless everyone wrights a letter and includes the financial impact. You can not be scared of telling what you make on the reptiles. The taxes you will pay because of claiming your income will tell them this is a real business a valuable industry and we will then be taken seriously.

Lynn Kubic
Boas and Balls

We must follow the guide lines set befor us so when we write in we are heard.

You may submit your comments and
materials concerning this notice of
inquiry by one of the methods listed in
the ADDRESSES section. We will not
accept comments sent by e-mail or fax
or to an address not listed in the
ADDRESSES section. We will not accept
anonymous comments; your comment
must include your first and last name,
city, State, country, and postal (zip)
code. Finally, we will not consider
hand-delivered comments that we do
not receive, or mailed comments that
are not postmarked, by the date
specified in the DATES section.

DATES: We will accept comments
received or postmarked on or before
April 30, 2008.

We are soliciting public comments
and supporting data to gain additional
information and specifically seek
comment on the following questions:
(1) What regulations does your State
have pertaining to the use, transport, or
production of Python, Boa and Eunectes
genera?
(2) How many species in the Python,
Boa and Eunectes genera are currently
in production for wholesale or retail
sale, and in how many and which
States?
(3) How many businesses sell Python,
Boa or Eunectes species?
(4) How many businesses breed
Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
(5) What are the annual sales for
Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
(6) Please provide the number of
Python, Boa or Eunectes species, if any,
permitted within each State.
(7) What would it cost to eradicate
Python, Boa or Eunectes individuals or
populations, or similar species, if
found?
(8) What are the costs of
implementing propagation, recovery,
and restoration programs for native
species that are affected by Python, Boa
or Eunectes species, or similar snake
species?
(9) What State-listed species would be
impacted by the introduction of Python,
Boa or Eunectes species?
(10) What species have been
impacted, and how, by Python, Boa or
Eunectes species?

Greetings

For those of us who only have a snake or two, and are neither commercial, nor natural scientists, but hate the government taking any of our rights away, what would be our approach? They are looking for "answers" to some pretty specific questions:

We are soliciting public comments
and supporting data to gain additional
information and specifically seek
comment on the following questions:
(1) What regulations does your State
have pertaining to the use, transport, or
production of Python, Boa and Eunectes
genera?
(2) How many species in the Python,
Boa and Eunectes genera are currently
in production for wholesale or retail
sale, and in how many and which
States?
(3) How many businesses sell Python,
Boa or Eunectes species?
(4) How many businesses breed
Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
(5) What are the annual sales for
Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
(6) Please provide the number of
Python, Boa or Eunectes species, if any,
permitted within each State.
(7) What would it cost to eradicate
Python, Boa or Eunectes individuals or
populations, or similar species, if
found?
(8) What are the costs of
implementing propagation, recovery,
and restoration programs for native
species that are affected by Python, Boa
or Eunectes species, or similar snake
species?
(9) What State-listed species would be
impacted by the introduction of Python,
Boa or Eunectes species?
(10) What species have been
impacted, and how, by Python, Boa or
Eunectes species?

I've sadly had to take several baby boas to be put down recently, and will soon be taking more----releasing them out the back door to get rid of them was never an option, so there was never a risk that they would impact local wildlife.

Any ideas? I'd like to be able to help too.

Antigone

Someone could write a letter to start us off and post it in the forums. Then, everyone could comment with what they want to be added to the letter. Once the letter is complete, each one of us could individually submit it on the regulations.gov website... Something like that? We could also get everyone we know to submit the letter.
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Rachel Squier

Currently have:
1.1 '03? BRBs (Blaze and Shimmer)

On the way:
1.0 '07 Albino BCI
0.2 '07 100% Het Albino BCIs
0.1 '07 DH Sunglow BCI

I'll listen and go along with what ever comes up,but I do want to stress EVERYONE should call their congressman monday morning.I don't know how much it will help,but I think when the financial impact to all our local economy's is brought up,theres a chance they might listen.Money usually talks.Plus it will only cost the price of a phone call and should be pretty easy for all to do.I aleo e-mailed pro exotics to ask if Chad Brown will say something publicly.I dont know him but he's well known.Hopefully him and all "famous" boa and python owners will.GOD BE WITH US Ron

Here is a thought. Something like this might work. It will take the cooperation of all our local retail reptile related specialty stores.
It will have to be a grass roots boots on the ground effort.
We'll come up with a form letter, as you've suggested, Jeff.
Print hard copies and have them available at the retail level. Nationwide. Participating merchants will encourage patrons to sign and endorse the letter. Letters will then be collected and sent to the proper Government authorities for comment in a timely manner conforming to their rules, guidelines, protocols. Same thing as signing a petition.
We'll need regional organization to accomplish this, as well as administrative organization, spokespeople, fundraisers, etc, etc.
Does anybody want to form a committee?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I run the Rocky Mountain Reptile Expo in Colorado. I will take Colorado. I will Make sure all the letters get mailed in, in time. I also own Willards Rodents and we go to a LOT of Colorado pet stores. Anyone else in Colorado willing to help me my # is 720-685-9557.

If we get a group of people in each state I think we can slam them with letters.

Lynn Kubic
Boas and Balls

Below is a copy of a comment I just posted on www.regulations.gov regarding the proposed ruling on boas and pythons. Simply go to the website and type the word "boa" in the search box, it will take you to the proposed rule change page.

"Any ban on boas or pythons would be a huge waste of Federal resources. Boas
and pythons can only survive in the wild in very few places in our Country, South
Florida being one of those areas. Florida Fish and Wildlife already has regulations
requiring pit tags (microchips) for some reptiles and registration requirements for
reptile owners in effect. Any additional Federal regulation would be a waste of
taxpayer's money, since there are no significant feral populations of constrictors
anywhere else in the US that could adversely affect humans or native wildlife."

I would urge others to do the same.

Denny Rimes

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/boasandpythonsban/
You can sign your name (or choose to be anonymous), leave comments, and email this petition to others to sign. I can edit the title of the petition (but I am limited to the amount of characters - this was all I could squeeze in - "The proposed USF&W ban on Boas and Pythons". I can also edit the description of the petition (but I am limited to 1,000 words) if there is anything that needs to be changed.
I think this is only one step of many that needs to be taken to avoid this from passing into law. I will help in anyway possible.
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Kevin Blumenthal
www.blumenboas.com

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np

.
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Dave Lee

np

Heres the place to submit any letters . If everyone floods them with good letters there may be a chance.

Also I will be adding a video to you tube as I have 200 plus boa subscribers that will help too!!!!

Heres the Fish and Wildlife Link for the comments
official link

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www.BetterBoa.com

4.3 BCIs (Zeus, Athena, Xena, Jocasta, Menelaus, Aphodite, Hades)
4.4 Corn snakes

I sent a letter to the F & W at the official site. I filled out the info in the beggining of the form. after i sent in my comment I was wondering.... Are they taking names to "track" down later if this ban goes through or if permits become required? sorta like.. "here tells what you think but dont forget your name and location..um for um.. legal purposes"
maybe im just paranoid Uncle Sam will come knocking on my door some day.
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Adrian De Leon
Hissenia Reptiles

use fake names then!
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www.BetterBoa.com

4.3 BCIs (Zeus, Athena, Xena, Jocasta, Menelaus, Aphodite, Hades)
4.4 Corn snakes

It is so they don't get some over zealous individual sending in several letters to inaccurately inflate numbers one way or another. So don't worry.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

were listed in the 07 NRBE program as our Reptile Industry Representatives on the Animal Industry Technical Council.

They has something to do with regulating the ban on 'The Big 5' as opposed to ALL constrictors.

Are they aware of this?

I have already posted links to this on Craigslist, Myspace and a few other forums, and have asked that others do the same.

For some of us, this is our LIVES.

This is no joke.

If there is no formal organization of representatives for us on this, there should be, like yesterday.

Let's do it.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

If everyone on this forum and others would chip in $1 or so, i'm sure we could hire legal representation on this.

QUESTION:

What are the feds going to do about all the legal, viable businesses out there that rely on this?

Will they be compensating us for lost wages, etc. ?!?!?!

Sounds like a legal issue...

Class Action Lawsuit anyone???
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

It's a Constitutional matter.

Their argument essentially is that it's in the public's interest and for the greater good that they curtail, limit, modify, and/or remove our rights to pursue our interests as they apply to the keeping and commerce in the live large Boid trade.

Our objective is to expose their pretext for this action, for the Straw Man Red Herring fallacious unsupportable assumption of facts that it is.

This is nothing more than their end-around way of bringing us all out of the woodwork for a head count -- quantifying and calculating the economic potential for future regulation, control, and taxation.

One must be very careful when considering answering their questions. Let's just step back and consider our response carefully, with one voice.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I still dont see a ban on pitbulls when they are raised for fighting. or even certain species of chickens for fighting. sure a chicken can try to kill someone but in the end it just wont happen. Pitbulls can and probably have killed people but they are furry and cute.

I feel sorry for the families of people that have died to thier mistakes in our hobby. It doesnt change that there are a lot of other things that should be addressed on a more serious note than to ban boids.
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My Photobucket

I am up for donating.

The thing to do is to submit replies using the format outlined in the federal register. Comments submitted by any other method will be ignored and thus things like a petition drive will have no real impact, other than to divert energies and resources. We need to focus our efforts.

I have updated the news release to include a link where comments may be submitted online and also to outline a special panel chat regarding this issue that we have scheduled for this month.

Make sure your voice is heard, submit your comments using the official tools provided to respond. And spread the word.

I am certain that on Monday, more information will be forthcoming
from a variety of sources.

A carefully and thoughtfully crafted FORM LETTER addressing their questions, using their protocols and format is NOT a petition.
It is a uniform, focused, and directed reply to their concerns.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

And keep the media out of it. We'ed be out voted.

If we could get 1000 people to donate $50.00 each that would amount to $50000.00. We need a good LAW FIRM with a good name. If we donate money maybe they could keep track of it and if a portion of it didn't get used then they could divide it up and return some to the original contributors. There is a lot more then 1000 people who would give $50.00 to save their business, I was using that as an example. Can you imagine if 10000 people gave $50.00. $50.00 a person is really a drop in the bucket considering what is at stake to be lost. Some people in this hobby/business have hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars worth of reptiles and all of the things that go along with them. There are celebrities and other famous people that enjoy boas and pythons. Slash from Guns and Roses comes to mind, and there are a whole lot more. We need to form something like the NRA. Heck they have MOSES for a president. It mat not be easy at first but in the long run it will be well worth it. Maybe the new organization could include all animals and not just reptiles. And when people bring up the Florida Everglades situation they are being lied to. There was a hurricane several years ago, maybe 12 years ago or so. So many homes and businesses were destroyed and all kinds of animals got loose. That is where the majority of the wild pythons came from. It wasn't human fault or the snakes fault. The snake just adapted and did what it had to to survive. I live in Florida and we just had new laws put in place on the big pythons that include permits and micro chipping. Florida has an ideal climate for a lot of wild life to live and thrive. Most states get to cold for boas and pythons to make it through a winter. I don't have all the answers but what needs to be done is hiring a respectable law firm to represent the industry. A law firm is our best bet. So lets all get together and figure out who would be best for our needs.
Brian

Support PIJAC

Reading through all the comments here is like reliving a bad dream. When the Texas legislature started considering a ban on road collection of reptiles, many of us that love field herping in Texas went through the same panic. We wasted precious time just talking about action and how we needed a plan and an organization. Everyone was gung ho to do "whatever it takes", but we were panicked, desperate, confused, divided, and naive.

Ultimately, a handful of folks stepped forward and formed Herp Conservation Unlimited (HCU-TX) and spearheaded some real organization and counteraction. We swamped the Texas legislature with contacts of all types and effectively made our case. We succeeded in getting the bill amended to exclude herps then watched it die in committee. As we celebrated our success, one shameless politician and a handful of his cronies snuck the ban into rider on a "must pass" bill in the final hours of the legislative session. Now we are stuck with trying to reverse a law that was killed by open and fair debate but resuscitated by dirty politics.

Bottom line: Our enemies are not interested in open and fair debate. They simply want to squash a hobby that they can't understand. If we want to defeat them, we MUST form an overwhelming and united front.

The question: Who will step up to organize a response? HCU could form an organizational framework or serve just serve as an example and lend our support. Perhaps there is another organization that could take the lead. More than likely, a new organization will need to be formed (QUICKLY) to focus exclusively on this fight. Ultimately, we should work to form a central organization to include and unite all efforts to support and protect herps and herpers. This is the dream behind HCU-US or even HCU-International. However, these organization remain more a goal than a reality.

Whatever is done, one of the first steps should be the creation of a PRIVATE forum where key players and interested parties could be invited to discuss strategy and implement plans of action without worrying about who is looking over their shoulder.

I am with Daryl on this one, HCU-TX is in place and state chapters have been urged to form, with the reality being HCU-US, how many more states are going to introduce legislation?, all of them, but this is at a national level. Right now, PIJAC does look to be in the position to do something about this, now. They monitor all state and federal bills coming in concerning the whole pet industry. Have a look at their page and HCU-TX as well. I also applaud the Carolinas and Virginias for their efforts. People, the radar is sounding, do something, don't waste this Super Sunday without doing some homework and making some choices, pretty soon we will have less to choose from.
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Todd Hughes

I am all for the two above posts. I live in Texas and know first hand the facts/details/issues on the matter.
We all agreed we need to do something.
We all agreed we need to do it NOW.
We all agree we need to speak with one unified voice.
We all agree it will cost money.
OK. Now, we are at the next step, and here it is:
Since we will be collecting funds and presumably distributing payments to those specialists working on our behalf, we need an organization -- a board, operating officers, a mission, a set of by-laws, etc., etc.; so we can begin to to the good works we all desire.
HCU sounds like they do have the framework for our organization in place and already available.

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Nationwide, the most effective lobbying arm of the pet industry. This will directly and negatively affect the majority of PIJAC's membership.

http://www.pijac.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

It is time for the herp community as a whole to organize and support a real organization. a true reptile keepers association that is more than just a show. An organization with legal and lobby power to look out for our concerns.

While this one may not go through there will be others. Time to stand up and make our voice heard.
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles
Venom-Center -- Venomous Community
Wisconsin Reptile Community
Hybrid Herps-- Hybrid Community