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I have been interested and have been keeping a wide variety of rearfanged genera for over 25 years. Back in November 1979, the Shed,who some of us old timers remember, had a snake listed as a Banded False Water Cobra [Dugandia bisincta]. It was 7ft long and Joe Beraducci told me it that colouration wise it kind of resembled a green anaconda. Dugandia as I now understand it is an old synonym of Cyclagras [now Hydrodynastes]. I have had alot of experience with H.gigas,but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this species, which I'm guessing is now called [Hydrodynastes bisincta].Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks,in advance, Grant

Hi, I remember the SHED well and both Barraducci and Poras. Never saw that snake (unfortunatly...). One of my older sources lists the Smooth snake "false Water Cobra" as Cyclagras gigas and describe it as similar to Hydrodynastes (which is listed with two sbs: bicictus and schultzi. Even this source says that they are all probably the same species. This ought to add to the confusion. Frank

According to the EMBL Database, now get this: the assigned common name for H. bicinctus is Herrman's Water Snake.

Cheers,

Derek K.

Why did H. gigas acquire the assigned common name " False Water Cobra", and H. bicinctus the really appealing name of Herrman's Water Snake; other than Herrman discovering this species? I would very much like to know.

Cheers,

Derek K.

Me thinks Herrman was all wet......................Frank

rearfang,

Seriously,

What really sets these two species within the same genus apart?

This question has been asked by others in a different fashion, and so far I personally haven't seen a definitive explanation.

From some of your previous posts, you appear to be quite knowledgeable with regard to the subject matter.

Curious,

Derek K.

To start with I'm not sure that they aren't all the same species-just different races. If you start checking photos for example you begin to see this is a Very variable snake. In Popes classic THE REPTILE WORLD he shows what he calls Cyclagras gigas which has a very reduced pattern anteriorly. A more typical specimen is in the new REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS OF THE AMAZON. Friegergs old book SNAKES OF SOUTH AMERICA shows photos of H.gigas and bicincus as well. from these photos H.bicincus apears to be lighter in shade and with a more uniform (rounded) blotch pattern than gigas. The blotch pattern also is more obscured in the same way as Pope's photo. However that one photo (bicincus) is the only one of that sbs in my library so it is not much to go on. Then too there is the possible confusion in the early days with another snake that hoods. Waglerophis-Opis or even Xenodon merremi, which could easily be confused with a Hydronastes juv. Ditmars...for example shows one such snake in his Snakes of the world. There have been so many different names for this snake I am inclined to just say that it is a "Lumper-Splitter" issue animal....Frank

My small but high quality library focuses primarly on my main interests: the Taxonomy of Elapidae/Viperidae/currently known highly venomous Colubrids, and Toxinology, however, that doesn't mean that Colubridae isn't an interesting subject matter. I simply just don't have the time to dwell upon the humungous family of colubrids. It appears that soon it will become even more interesting with the latest toxin research being published, therefore expanding my interests.

Unfortunately, I do not have any of the publications you mentioned,(jotted them down), for future reference. According to the description you provided; its no wonder these two species and H. bicinctus' subspecies are all being refered to as "False Water Cobras", and probably are the same snake, (H. gigas), as you previously mentioned. As we know; this won't be the first time this has happened in previous Systematiques/Taxonomy methodologies, but hopefully it won't happen again when utilizing the latest technology scientists have available.

Cheers,

Derek K.

Thanks for all the responses to my query re Dugandia, Hydrodynastes,etc. etc. I went back and looked at some of those old photos [good idea] and I agree I think that they are probably all the same snake. This genus has a big range so there is probably a fair amount of geographic variation. Once again,thanks.