Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need some help/support here. For 2 years (once a year) I brought my Blair (Alterna) King Snake an small Boa Constrictor (3.5 ft) to the school Science class (grades k thru 5).

Its always a big big hit. The kids get so excited and have so much fun. I have rules--no quick moves, don't put the snake up in you face. Don't get in their face--you all know.

Well of course a 5th grader didn't listen, put the snake to her face and got bit on the chin. You couldn't even see it. However snake day is now dead. I tried to the the paranoid group that a bee sting is more dangerous. Walking to school (in nyc) is more dangerous. Talk is cheap.

Does anyone have any scientific support?

thank you
alan ruta

I don't know if an actual study has been done... it seems like anybody who knows much about snakes knows it's so obvious how harmless most of the non-venomous ones are that a study would be pointless.

The example I usually like to use involves roses. Roses are so much more dangerous than most non-venemous snakes it's ridiculous. Raspberries and blackberries too. It seems like every time I go out into the field looking for snakes the worst injuries I sustain are from roses and raspberry plants. Yes, sometimes I get bit, but those marks (if there even are any) persist for a couple days at most while my rose tears have been known to scar.

Another thing people fail to recognize is the danger of ALL other animals. Chipmunks may be cute but the largest scar on my body is from a cute little chipmunk. Handle one of those babies and they will tear you to shreds. Snakes leave a mark but it barely hurts and the damage is temporary. Most parrots can do much, MUCH, worse.

catman--
Education is a big part of our hobby, and providing children an opportunity to interact with reptiles is an effective way to advocate understanding of beautiful animals.

The chin bite is most unfortunate. Not only was snake day cancelled, but negative attitude was focused on the hobby. In addition, you've opened yourself up to liability. The bite was not the result of the child holding the snake up to her face. The bite was the result of you not having the snake under control, and letting her put it up to her face when it bit her. Children don't listen, especially when, as you admit, they are excited. It's the adult's responsibility to expect that, and to ensure that a child interacts with the animal in a safe context. Better hope that the child doesn't develop a zit and her parents' blame it on the bite.

For what it's worth: when I work with kids and a snake in the same space, I hold the snake's head securely. Then I have them wash their hands before putting up two fingers to stroke the snake from the neck towards the tail as I support the body with the other hand. If I have my Bci (6 ft.), they may gently stroke her with one hand, one person at a time. If I am taking multiple animals, I either take them out one at a time, or ask trusted herp friends to be there. Very rarely, I may allow a child to hold a snake's body, while I control the head. So far (knock on wood, my head, thank the goddesses), there have been no unfortunate incidents. After touching, they must once again wash their hands with soap and water.

In places such as school settings, children should not simply be handed a snake to hold. Too many variables of what can happen, and not enough controls to prevent it. I hope that you will continue educating kids about snakes. Just think through some protocols that will keep both kids and snakes safe, and you out of court.
rgds,
althea

Here's a link I found on the web:

Causes and odds of death in 2003: Table/statistics summarizing fatalities caused by normal everyday activities compared to fatal captive exotic animal attacks in the USA.
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Diego

> > > I need some help/support here.

Alan,
I don't want to be a hard a-- but why in the world would you expect to find help & support for such a serious offense? It is situations like this that makes it so hard on responsible reptile keepers & reptile educators.

I'm having a heck of a time getting approval from my local school board in order for me to take snakes into classrooms unless they remain caged. Why? All because someone just like you carelessly allowed a student to get bit at another school.

Just because a snake is docile while being handled by it's owner or another person doesn't make it a good candidate for public interaction. The commotion of a group of people will stress most reptiles. Throw in the fear factor of being improperly handled and you've got a live wire on your hands.

People's fear of snakes is fueled by ignorance, and now you have just compounded the issue. You need to reconsider your methods.

No help & support from me.

HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I'm with you on this one, HH, and it's not because we both hang out in the monitor forum a lot.

I just did a demo for a bunch of kids in the reptile section at the shop the other day. Field trip to a 10,000 square foot petstore with rescued monkeys hanging out? Sounds like a plan! I had my JCP out and was letting the kids touch her as they walked by before we went to see the monkeys and even though I'd told them to stay away from her head, I had two kids slap the top of her skull and run off. Little kids a seven foot long carpet python? Could have ended badly. My baby girl jerked back but was thankfully well-behaved over being assaulted by the tiny hands.

My point is, even the most well-behaved snake can't be trusted all the time and when the next field trip comes in, I'm not taking the same chance I took Tuesday again. Not with one of my personal snakes, anyhow.

OP-- You let a young kid who doesn't know anything about reptiles and their behaviors hold one of your snakes and trusted her to listen to you?

Stupid on your part.

Lesson learned: Kids are morons, as the herp-handler and the adult it was YOUR job to prevent someone from getting bitten, regardless of how minor, and you failed at that. The stigma continues. :/
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1.1 Ornate Uromastyx [Re and Wadjet]
1.0 Savannah Monitor [Zephyrus]
1.0 Quince Monitor [Poe]
1.1 Eastern Box Turtles [Zoink and Abel]
1.0 Sulcata Tortoise [Littlefoot]
0.1 Pink-Toe Tarantula [Athena]
1.1 Argus Monitors [Kharnak and Mudd]
1.0 Eastern Kingsnake [Duke]
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python [Whistler]
0.0.1 Helmeted Terrapin [Station/Terror]

...And more rats than I can count anymore.

{Hi, I'm Harmony, and I'm a Varanophile...}

At the Minnesota Herpetological Society, we do hands-on activities, and one of the most important rules is to keep control of the head. That means keeping the head, or the neck at most around 4 inches from the head, in your hands, making sure the head is the farthest part from the public, and that the head is pointed away from the public. If you are doing this all on your own, you probably don't have well established rules like that, but you should do research to find out what other people are doing, and what is effective. That's all i have to say.
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-Jacob

Why do people say .02 cents??? So, what, your opinion is only worth a 50th of a cent?