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Lost in the disc. of the "ban" proposal

JP Feb 04, 2008 08:14 AM

Lost in the discussion of the "ban" proposal (or at least from what I've been able to quickly read) is/are the reason(s) behind the proposal in the first place.

Every here seems to be in "panic mode", and for good reason, but we need to slow down just a second. Wildly emotional and poorly thought out submissions to the panel should be avoided at all cost! We need to find out 1) who was the impetus behind the proposal, and 2) what is the supposed justification behind the proposal.

Once those two things are very well understood, then a reasoned response (supported with fact) that is likely to be read and considered can be sent.

Replies (15)

brhaco Feb 04, 2008 08:18 AM

click on the above link then click the "UPDATES" link. You can then go directly to the proposal.
-----
Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

JP Feb 04, 2008 08:26 AM

Yea...I should have said "lost in THE REATION" posts that I have read...

JP Feb 04, 2008 08:30 AM

np

JP Feb 04, 2008 08:24 AM

Looks like the concern is the exotic/introduced species angle. They seem to be concerned about the establishment of boa and python species in other ecosystems (funny thing is, there are no more than a small handful of states where a population of boas or pythons could become established based on climate). Anyway, the proposal asks for this specific information. Seems to me a coordinated response from the community as a whole is in order.:

We are soliciting public comments
and supporting data to gain additional
information and specifically seek
comment on the following questions:
(1) What regulations does your State
have pertaining to the use, transport, or
production of Python, Boa and Eunectes
genera?
(2) How many species in the Python,
Boa and Eunectes genera are currently
in production for wholesale or retail
sale, and in how many and which
States?
(3) How many businesses sell Python,
Boa or Eunectes species?
(4) How many businesses breed
Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
(5) What are the annual sales for
Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
(6) Please provide the number of
Python, Boa or Eunectes species, if any,
permitted within each State.
(7) What would it cost to eradicate
Python, Boa or Eunectes individuals or
populations, or similar species, if
found?
(8) What are the costs of
implementing propagation, recovery,
and restoration programs for native
species that are affected by Python, Boa
or Eunectes species, or similar snake
species?
(9) What State-listed species would be
impacted by the introduction of Python,
Boa or Eunectes species?
(10) What species have been
impacted, and how, by Python, Boa or
Eunectes species?

sjs Feb 04, 2008 08:32 AM

what do questions 2-6 have to do with anything,,,,,,,,looks like uncle same wants his cut. HAHAHAHAHAA

sjs Feb 04, 2008 08:33 AM

...

JP Feb 04, 2008 08:43 AM

Looks like they are weighing the economic benefits vs. the environmental risks...

sjs Feb 04, 2008 08:54 AM

well booze and marlboros are much more damaging then ANY and all reptiles but they are OK because they are taxed,,,,,,,maybe thats the way out ......PAY UP...............no im not a paranoid conspiracy theorist but facts are facts......good luck to all

snakeman333 Feb 04, 2008 09:51 AM

Thats what they thought about squirrels when they brought them to the states. A handful is way, way to many to allow to be impacted by this.

Allowing the Everglades to become a habitat for large non-indigenous reptiles eventually will be a disaster to the ecosystem.

The shame of it is is that a very, very small percentage of this forum and the industry would allow their loved animals to be set free.

Unfortunately there are still people that are not educated and don't realize or don't care about our environment and the perfect ecosystem that we are ruining at a rapid rate.

This is just another example of humans impacting their environment in a negative way.

We are a plague to this earth, what's new?

tonychi01 Feb 04, 2008 08:26 PM

Set fre...could you imagine some one on an african safari seeing a bananna ball, pied, lav, etc., they would think there was a toxic waste dump nearby making the local snakes look like box of crayons. just kidding..most of our morphs would get eaten within the first hour.
~Tony

JasonW Feb 04, 2008 11:52 AM

My answer to about every question there is "I have no clue" How can we put numbers to questions like that? We don't know what the next guy dose. I sent off several emails last year to breeders asking for numbers in order to do some industry annalists work and guess what? Not one person replied to me. My point is breeders and retailers don't share this info with us so how can we logically comment on numbers? To answer such questions we would be guessing at best witch in my opinion would hurt us in the long run rather than help us now. If we can not back up our comments with hard facts we should not share our comments at all. At the same time if we don't stand up and speak we will not be heard. Its like a catch 22 they have us on. I garontee if we start tossing unsupported comments and numbers out there they will record them and on the next ban they will say "Now wait a minute, thats not what you said last year". Dose this make sense?
Foot Hill Reptiles

kathylove Feb 04, 2008 02:09 PM

It is true that you can't put exact numbers to their questions. The hobbyists, breeders, manufacturers, shops, etc, will each have to tell their own story about how it affects them and their own local area.

So you can just tell what you know, and also your opinion. If there are several shops in your area that sell boids and supplies for them, you can say "4 shops in my city use approx. 15% of their space (or whatever it is) to sell boas, pythons, and supplies for them. If this revenue is cut off, it will obviously result in lost sales and possibly staff layoffs. And I am a hobbyist only, but spend $XXX on feed, supplies, etc, for my boids. That will all be lost sales to various businesses. Multiply that by all of the other keepers across the US". Or that type of info. And of course, you can give your opinion of how many states are likely to support tropical species, and the fact that Florida has already written laws regarding this, as can every other state so inclined. Point up the risk vs benefit - why should everyone in all of the cold states give up their income or passion so that a couple of states can avoid making their own state laws to deal with it, if they think it is a problem? This should be a state issue, not a Federal issue.

It is fine to tell them the same thing a bunch of other people will say. If they hear it often enough, maybe they will believe it!

In the end, they will tally up "for" and "against" letters(they have done that previously), and then they will enter that into the mix of other risk vs. benefit info they get from all sources. So don't be shy - write whatever you know, and if it is just opinion, you can tell them that too. Just don't try to disguise it as fact.

rsherman79 Feb 04, 2008 06:13 PM

I have never been clear on exactly what the Fish & Wildlife service does. It seems to me that THEY are the ones that should have the answers to these questions. Like question one for instance, is it just me or does anyone else find it frightening that they don't already know what the various local regulations are or at least have a way to find out without eliciting a public response?
-----
Ryan Sherman
Scottsdale, Arizona
www.ThePaintedPython.com

kthulhu Feb 04, 2008 08:19 PM

Unfortunetly, many of the people that work for agencies such as various state departments of environmental protection or for fish and wildlife are totally ignorant when it comes to non-cute and cuddley animals. I used to intern for a company that performed pine snake surveys and radio tracking in southern new jersey, and since we were a private company, we were subject to state inspections on our traps etc. Well one day i was out checking traps and got a call saying someone from DEP was going to meet me and that they found a baby pine snake. When i finally met here, she was talking about how it looked a little different and started talking about how maybe the pines in this area were evolving different color patterns and behavior. I asked about the behavior, she said when she caught the snake, it played dead. I opened up her pillow case and they politely told her that she infact caught an eastern hognose and not a pine snake. Mind you, these animals are threatened in jersey and its was here job to make sure that our traps were in good order etc, and she couldnt even identify what a pine snake looked like in the field. I fear that these are the kinds of people who are trying to get this bill passed and probably dont stop to think that maybe burms and balls probably couldnt survive a northeast winter, or pretty much a winter anywhere in the US with the exception being Florida
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0.1 Normal Cornsnake
1.0 Sumatran Short Tail Python
2.3 Ball Pythons (2 normals, 2 pastel and 1 ?)

joshhutto Feb 05, 2008 10:37 AM

extreme south florida. Areas from ft myers and north get too many freezing days during our winter to sustain a breeding group of most if not all boids. We must remember that these animals have not evolved to seek out deep burrows or den sites to deal with harsh winters. The people trying to pass these laws have blinders on and we must remove them in order to continue to enjoy our passion.
-----
Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

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