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Federal Ban

Snakesunlimited1 Feb 04, 2008 07:45 PM

I sincerly hope all of you are going to write a letter to the USF&W reguarding the proposed ban on the python and boas. Even if it does not affect you directly (like me) it will affect the whole hobby and we all know that asian rat snakes are much better suited to live outside of southern Florida than any of the boids. They are claiming this is in the interest of the enviroment so all the other exotics are next, then it is only natives left for them to tackle...

There is a ton of info available online about this and there are even some nicely written form letters that others have written to save you time if you don't have it.

Jason

Replies (10)

tbrock Feb 04, 2008 10:00 PM

Very good points, Jason. I plan on writing some letters, myself, even though I do not own any boids, nor do I have a desire to own any, but I do keep Asian rat snakes. This is invasive legislation at its worst.

-Toby Brock
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Elaphefan Feb 05, 2008 04:59 PM

The purposed Federal Ban is in response to a real problem. Asking them to do nothing is not the answer. Asking them to something positive would be better. Offering them alternatives to banning the sale and ownership of such snakes to end the problem of unwanted pets being let loose in the Everglades would be the way to go.

I don't keep such snakes, and I don't have the answer. How would you address the problem? If someone has a solution, I will be glad to support it.

cherokee_reptile Feb 06, 2008 07:26 PM

I think it is our responsability as snake owners to teach as many people to be responsable reptile owners. The problem im encountering in the area I live is there are a couple shops that will tell you what you want to hear to make a sale. I have spoke with people that have told me RTB only grow to 4-6 ft. my girl must be a giant morph at 7ft and still growing. I think everything about the bans lies in the hands of responsable pet ownership. when i sell a baby corn snake i tell the person buying from he if they dont want the animal anylonger to call me i will give it a forever home. My Dad is getting into keeping reptiles i think its awesome. He retired and wants to learn to field herp and photograph reptilles. I dont agree with the ban on boids in the state of Florida but just 2 days ago there was a 13 foot retic caught not far from where i live.
stepping off my soap box.... it all lies in use seasoned vets teaching the new generation to research the reptiles they are looking at as a pet.

sean1976 Feb 09, 2008 09:28 PM

I agree with your point about responsible ownership and selling. We need people to know exactly what they are getting. It's the reason I still go through the local pet store that I have for the last few years. They don't carry the problem species(since if you know enough to care for them and want them then you also know how to find a breeder/seller) and they give you complete accurate information including telling you if they do not know the answer to a question and what resources might have that answer.

That being said there is also still the problem of partial information. A key example is your RTB. Is it a BCI or a BCC? If someone only has limited experience and it is with BCI then they might think that all RTB's only get to 5-6ft long. Personally I was recently fostering a pair of BCC's of which the male was full grown and the female was still growing. The male was only 6ft and about as thick arround as my wrist. the female was approaching 9ft and about as thick as the thickest part of my forearm. They were both the same variety of BCC but they had been on completely different feed schedules. The male had been fed regularly but very small prey items while the female had been power fed. So if the store had only dealt with BCI's or even a small BCC like the male I was caring for then they might honestly, but still incorrectly, believe that RTB's only get to 4-6ft.

While the ban is theoretically in response to a problem which is real there is strong reason to question whether that real problem actually caused the bann to be proposed. Before the ban was even proposed there were local(state and county) measures being taken to deal with the issue.

In most if not all states it is illegal to release nonative species and in some states it is illegal to release native ones without F&G handling it. The simple fact is enforcement of that law is all that is needed to take care of the issue. I agree that the methodology of how to accomplish that enforcement is wide open to debate but the simple fact is that legistlation exists on the books for prosecution of the problem.

The bann does not even seem to attempt to be consistent. If the threat to people is the issue then they have no ground for some of the species on the bann list such as ball pythons. If the environmental risk is the issue then most of the species are irrelevant for anywhere other then south Florida as few could survive anywhere else in the US and fewer still, if any, could successfully breed there. In all reality the proposed snakes are some of the least likely candidates for being injurous to the US that you could have picked. However that makes it even more dangerous for other areas of the hobby like asian ratsnakes because once the bann goes through they can say look these other species are even worse so they need to be added.

Bottom line is it should be handled by the states and not the feds. If a state has a problem with a specific species they can impliment permits, microchipping, or bannes. I somehow don't see an anaconda being much of a threat on the loose in Minnesota. Do you?

Here's an interesting link as far as the human risk statistics

http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/care_fatalities.htm

Sean
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Snakesunlimited1 Feb 11, 2008 09:47 PM

Holy crap, according to that chart 1in 200,000 people will die from astroid!!!! Man that is scary!!! Seriously, think about that and the size of the city you live in... whoa

Jason

sean1976 Feb 13, 2008 04:53 AM

well you do have to take into account blast radius lol

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

amelthia Feb 08, 2008 08:01 PM

I do not currently own a rat snake, only 2 blood pythons, but I happened to be browsing and saw this so...my 2 cents...
I do think that the ban is in response to a real problem, but its certainly not new. There are hundreds of non-native species, that because of irresponsible owners are now loose running around the country - feral pigs, feral dogs, snakehead fish, there are also established populations of some species (I dont remember) of monkey in FL as well as parrots. They chose to single out snakes and the ban is unwarranted in this respect. What they should be saying is - hey we need to find a way to discourage people from letting their pets loose and making sure pet owners have proper enclosures...which is more invasive than what they're currently proposing, but its more relevant. I would agree with some kind of permit requirements for the extremely large snakes (anacondas,burms, retics, rocks, etc) because they are far too easy to get ahold of for snakes that become so potentially dangerous. I feel that too many people (that aren't too experienced with reptiles)see a cute little burm in a pet shop, and they dont really know much about it but think it would be cool to own a giant snake. When the snake gets too big it becomes some sort of reality for them - like they just now realized that this is a huge snake, and it can be expensive to feed and difficult to house - hence the current problem. I've known quite a few people who have done this with rtbs. This proposed ban also addresses the threat of environmental damage - the threat to already endangered/threatened species in FL that are now in competition with or being eaten by the pythons is also a huge part of the ban. All of these species are duking it out in a very specific territory which people have been tearing up and developing since they moved in...the Everglades-has been reduced by 50% over the past 100 years because of development. People have also introduced diseases to the area through dogs, cats, etc. long before the snakes were an issue. True, the snakes are only adding to the problem, but there are MANY problems so I hate to see pythons and boas take the brunt of it. Sorry for the long post.
Kim

JL1981 Feb 13, 2008 02:45 PM

I have lived in South Florida for 7 and a half years (Miami and now, Ft. Lauderdale), and unfortunately, South Florida is overrun with exotics. I see green iguanas pretty much daily (and spiny iguanas on occasion), a whole host of other exotic lizards, green amazon parrots and scarlet macaws, exotic fish, exotic frogs and toads, as well as the ever present feral cats and dogs. I have heard there are invasive monkeys in the Everglades, but have yet to see them. I have also never seen an exotic boid.

However, this brings up a very interesting point. Burmese pythons are sighted in the Everglades and fish and wildlife are now talking about banning boids in the US. However, one of the most destructive invasive species goes relatively unrestricted: feral cats!!! Feral cats populations are xploding (they are everywhere) and I guarantee they are much more destructive ecologically (killing natives, spreading disease)than boids, yet they remain fairly unrestricted as pets. IMHO, no one should be allowed to let their cats roam outside unsupervised.

PS- Will this outlaw native boids such as rosy boas and rubber boas?

amelthia Feb 13, 2008 09:28 PM

The ban is on the transport of EVERY species of boa and python to or from the country or between states

ChrisGilbert Feb 14, 2008 04:00 AM

No, it is only the genera of Boa, Python, and Eunectus. That covers the Boa constrictor complex, 4 species of Anaconda, and 9 species of Python.
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Gilbert Boas
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