Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For the first time in almost 20 years, I am without a single reptile in the house, and it just doesn't feel right. I've always wanted an indigo, but they're way out of my price range, so I'm looking at the two "poor man's indigos". I have experience with pits (I had a hypo bull project about ten years ago) and I like them a lot, so I'm leaning towards a black pine, but black milks have also caught my interest. Since this is the pit forum, I'm expecting some bias, but I'd really like opinions from someone that has had experience with both species. My main concern is temperament, as I want something that will tolerate relatively frequent handling.

It's a tuff decision but I personally like the BP's better. I have a friend thats working on breeding the BM's and have spent a little bit of time playing with his adults. In my opinion the BP's are a little more personable and tend to be more of a couch potato snake and the BM's are like most milk's, a little more jumpy. I also see my Pines out a bit more than the milks. The other thing to consider is if you like the keeled scales or smooth scales better, the Milks also have a pinner head.

All in all either snake is awesome but still doesn't compare to an indigo, I just have to make some more baby snakes before I can get one. Me and My girls rule now is the only way to get more snakes is by selling babie snakes.lol.
Nate

Most people will say pines

They're bigger, meaner and just plain better!!!

If you want an Indigo, get an indigo.

Black Milk

Indigo

Black Pine

P.S. None of these are mine, they are from a master snake keeper in the north.
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I have more than a few snakes.......

That first pic is a mexican black king, I,m pretty sure.
Why would you put your hand in an Indigos mouth?
Awesome Pine!

Damn! Now thats a Picture! Looks like that indigo bite hurt!

I am partial to black pines by the way
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"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Red Iguana "Rusty"
0.1 North American Black Pinesnake "Sidney"
0.1 Axanthic Brooks Kingsnake "Aimers"
1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog "Chubbs"

Your "black milk" is certainly not a milk - it's a Mexican Black King. They're quite different animals. Just an FYI.

-Cole

I have Black Milks, as far as handling the adults are great to handle, babies are alot more nervous and will bite. I've never had Black pines so I can't comment on them, but I do have other Pitts that are great to handle from babies to adult.

Thanks,
Bill

Get a pine, they rarely crap on you. Milks on the other hand...

Thats anther reason I love my black pine! I am not down with the snakes crapping on me!!

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"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Red Iguana "Rusty"
0.1 North American Black Pinesnake "Sidney"
0.1 Axanthic Brooks Kingsnake "Aimers"
1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog "Chubbs"

My black milks have never musked me.

>Thats anther reason I love my black pine! I am not down with the snakes crapping on me!!
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>>"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
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>>1.0 Red Iguana "Rusty"
>>0.1 North American Black Pinesnake "Sidney"
>>0.1 Axanthic Brooks Kingsnake "Aimers"
>>1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog "Chubbs"
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

When you can not decide...get both! I did. They are both great snakes with totally different personalities.
Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't...LOL!

I dont' have any black pines but I do have two BM's and two Bullsnakes and a Northern Pine. I don't have a prefernece for one over the other. I will say that my blackmilks have never made any attempt to bite me or crap on me (unlike my kings). The bulls and pines have hissed and rattled their tails but nothing more than that. You are more likely to have a docile Black Milk than a Pit(IMHO). I like all mine why choose get both...I did

Miller
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
1.0 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

If your "main concern is temperament", I think you should consider black milks. This may sound biased since I work with black milks, but I have owned black pines in the past as well.

Both are awesome snakes, but I think given that you described wanted a calm snake that can be frequently handled, I would go with the gaigeae. As others mentioned, keeled scales versus smooth scales are a consideration as well. To me, the black milks with the smooth scales are also a more shiny black color than pines. The babies don't crap and bite you like other milk snake species.

Good luck.

Dave

DNS Reptiles

hmmm if i would have to choose..... it would be both! i plan on having a pair of black pines and a pair of black milks anyways.

I agree with you.Never had any problems with my blacks.

>>If your "main concern is temperament", I think you should consider black milks. This may sound biased since I work with black milks, but I have owned black pines in the past as well.
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>>Both are awesome snakes, but I think given that you described wanted a calm snake that can be frequently handled, I would go with the gaigeae. As others mentioned, keeled scales versus smooth scales are a consideration as well. To me, the black milks with the smooth scales are also a more shiny black color than pines. The babies don't crap and bite you like other milk snake species.
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>>Good luck.
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>>Dave
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>>DNS Reptiles
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

The thing I like about my black milks are the fact they never turn down food,dont need a heat supply,and are easy to handle.The only thing I dont like is the fact that if there not eating or pooping there hiding.
I keep a pair of northern pines aswell and they are active,fiesty and just a little more fun to handle.

>>For the first time in almost 20 years, I am without a single reptile in the house, and it just doesn't feel right. I've always wanted an indigo, but they're way out of my price range, so I'm looking at the two "poor man's indigos". I have experience with pits (I had a hypo bull project about ten years ago) and I like them a lot, so I'm leaning towards a black pine, but black milks have also caught my interest. Since this is the pit forum, I'm expecting some bias, but I'd really like opinions from someone that has had experience with both species. My main concern is temperament, as I want something that will tolerate relatively frequent handling.
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

I have an 07 black milk & Pine. I don't think you can go wrong with either. My 07 black milk is a little jumpy, but has never bit or musked. My 07 black pine is the most laid back snake I've ever owned. The breeder I purchased my pine from says pretty much all his black pines are very easy going right from the start, so I guess it's that particular bloodline. Other black pines I've heard can have a little attitude.
Steve

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"Book ‘em, Danno”

I have both and must say, I really love the Black Pines! They are by far more personable, and the Pines are cooler looking in my opinion. But the Black Milks are a great snake as well. I've never had one musk me or poop on me, and they have to be the cleanest snakes I've ever owned, unlike the pines which are quite messy.

Both are great and I would really recommend both. I too would love an indigo but I know I won't have one for awhile. Also, both Black Pines and Black Milks' offspring are usually in high demand as well.
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1.0 Lampropeltis t. gaigae
1.1 Lampropeltis g. floridana
1.1 P.c. sayi (Hypo Stillwater)
1.1 P. lodingi
0.0.9 L. g. brooksi (hatchlings)

I have kept black pines for almost 4 years now. Just got my first pair of black milks last month, but have kept Andeans for about a year and a half (not the same, but similar in size/temperament/feeding response), so thought I could give you the pros and cons:

Black Pines: Pros- very curious, active. You'll see them out a lot...good for a display animal. Sometimes hissy when you reach for them, but generally calm once in your hands. Amazing feeding response...eat right out of your hand/tongs. Never musk.

Cons- need warmer than normal heat requirements for digestion (84* or so). Never seem to just stay still when handled. A big one keeps you busy holding it. Most are not solid black, if that's what you're looking for.

Black Milks/Andeans: Pros- laid back, lap snakes...the line I have (from Dennis Mountain) never musk, never vibrate the tail...calmest snakes I've ever held. No need for additional heat. These guys can digest food easily at 70*. Good feeding response, but shy (leave the rat pup in the cage vs. eating out of your hand). The Black Milks I've seen get blacker than the Black Pines and MBK's I've seen.

Cons- Stay hidden most of the time. That being said, I have an Andean in a display cage and he comes more often as he has grown larger. I imagine the black milks become more visible as they grow also.

You can't go wrong with either. If I had to choose one, I would go with the Black Milk...just because of the temperature requirements.

Michael

Thanks for all the responses, everyone. Based on what everyone has said, I've pretty much decided on a black milk, which kind of surprises me, since this is a pit forum. =D

Now I just need my tax refund.