Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've had a California King for about 4 months now. I recently did some redecorating on all of my setups and changed the substrate to paper towels. One of the things I added to the tanks in addition to the regular water dish is a shallow cup filled with soaking wet beaked moss. The snake had never expressed interest in his regular water dish before but now spends nearly all of his time in the cup of water and moss. At first he was getting ready so shed so I didn't think much of it but now that he's she and continues to soak himself I have to wonder if something is going on. I mist regularly but is there a chance the humidity isn't high enough? Temps too high? I'm not too worried but if this is an indicator that something is wrong in the environment I'd like to fix it. There is a hide at the hot and cool end of the tank and before he would alternate back and forth. The wet moss cup is in the middle.

Yes there is something wrong. In fact a few things.

First of all kingsnakes are fossorial. They live underground. They feel most secure when burried. You just go rid of all of his substrate and so now he is trying to hide in there. You say that you have hides on both sides but are they really tight, dark, secure hides? or are they open caves that don't do anything for the snake?

Secondly, fish tanks can make great homes for reptiles in only two situations. 1) You don't use the screen cover, but build your own top. 2) You live someplace that is natuarlly very humid. A screen topped tank sucks moisture out of the environment and will dehydrate any snake especially in a house that is already dry with the winter heat. Again, kingsnakes are fossorial. Even the ones that are from the desert s[end most of their time undground where it is much more humid.

Try a humidity chamber instead of an open bowl. Or better yet, since you have tanks anyway, fill the tank with 6 inches of dirt, moisten it, build a plexi glass top, and youll be set.

I agree. My Cal king spends most of his time buried in his substrate or "packed" into his half-log hide. I use a 20 gallon glass fish tank with a screen lid and have yet to have any problems. However, as the tank is relatively small, it is easy to maintain a stable environment (humidity, etc.). Aspen makes a great substrate for kingsnakes, since (as mentioned above) they like to burrow. It's also reasonably cheap and easy to clean.

Thanks. I've tried a few different substrates and will go back to soil but keep it a little deeper this time. It's generally pretty humid in this room but the heat source does dry things out in the tank pretty quickly. I was using an under tank heater but the dimmer broke so it has a heat lamp at the moment.

Would you recommend the same soil setup for the milk and mexican black?

I've had a lot of experience with herps in the field but am still pretty new to the captive snake world so there has been some trial and error. Thus far everybody seems healthy and are aggressive feeders so I suspect the stress of inappropriate substrates has been minimal to date. I guess that's why they're considered beginner snakes... much more forgiving than many other species

Thanks again

You are right they are called beginner snakes because they are hardy. I have seen snakes kept much worse than yours live for decades, but just because they don't keel over doesn't mean thats whats best for them. And that is the idea here right? To do whats best for our captives and maybe learn something along the way?

As far as your substrate choice...

Snakes are masters of micro-habitats. IE snakes from the desert know where to go to find humidity and snakes in the rainforest know how to get dry. said in another way, no snake from any climate will appreciate a single humidity, or a single temp all the time. So yes all of your snakes require the exact same care...choices! You would be surprised how many microhabitats you can create in a 20 gallon tank if you are creative.

Lastly going back to your tank... When you heat air it rises. Since you have a screen top the heat rises up out of the tank. But thats OK because you just use more power and add some more heat...except that when the air leaves the tank it takes moisture with it until the cycle has completely dried out everything in the tank. So unless you live in florida, or have a humidifier in the room, I would guess your snake is too dry. What do you think he is telling you when he chooses to sit in a bowl of wet moss?

A solid cover would improve humidity, and save on your electric bill.

Everything I've read says that it's not good to let them soak. Several of the books even said that if the snake soaks for long periods of time, you should give them a smaller, shallower dish, so that they can't.

Other kings probably need the humidity a little more, but everything I've seen on Cali's says keep them pretty dry.

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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

I really don't mean to be rude but I am probably about to be.

Why would you give this person advise? You have no experience and you are repeating bad advise yet you don't even know it!

Why would you take away a snakes bowl if it wants to soak? Did he say his snake was having skin problems? Maybe a snake in a bowl is telling you something and by removing it you are taking away the poor snakes last ditch effort to cool off/hydrate/humidify or anything else that he can't get from the tiny box he is kept in.

Cal kings do like to be reasonably dry most of the time but don't you think they know that? Do you know when your thirsty? Or when the heat goes on the winter do you use chapstick?

Try this...you make less choices...let your snakes make more of them... and you just watch and learn.

Yes, your response was worded rudely.

However, all rudeness aside, you got me thinking. I've been trying to figure out what book I read that in, because I didn't just pull my response out of my butt. Anytime I've ever been interested in a pet, I've purchased or borrowed many books about the animal. I read A LOT and I've even gone through countless care sheets online. I found the book that I was referencing though, just in case you were curious which one was wrong. 25 Best Reptile and Amphibian Pets was where I found the info. In the California Kingsnake section, they specifically state that if your Cali soaks for long periods of time, you should give him a smaller bowl so he cannot do that. It does not say, "if he has skin blister disease" or anything of that nature, it merely says that if he soaks for long periods of time, give him a smaller water bowl. It also declares that they are desert creatures and should have a "dry" habitat.

I'm sorry that I posted incorrect information, but I go by whatever sources I have available, and as I've been checking, none of the other kingsnake books I've read have contradicted this one. That's an awful lot of wrong information out there for new pet owners.

Just FYI.

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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

Reiterating what another said.. kings, milks are fossorial. They like to burrow in/under stuff. Certainly they can adapt to living on the surface, but under the surface they can better taylor access to temps and humidity.

I think the coir fiber substrates are perfect for this behavior. Coir is sold as "Bed-a-Beast" and "Eco-Earth" and other names. It is all coconut fiber. Can be slightly moistened to provide needed moisture, or left dry when you don't need the additional moisture.

Paper towels pull humidity from whatever touches them. Hence their use - to wipe up things. Add an undertank heater and a screen top and wow, you are sucking humidity like crazy.

So, if using paper towels, you need to reduce ventilation. As said, a substrate is better, especially one like coir that you can mist when needed. Your milksnake will thrive in that as well.
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Mark