Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased new lighting for my 2 Leopard Geckos. (R Zilla Deser series 50, 20", with 2x Day Blue bulbs 25 watts, and a T5 Desert 50). 1 day ago I noticed blisters appearing on the face and cheek and that some seemed to have popped on the tail. They are now very sluggish and sleep most of the time. I've had 1 for over 4 years and the other for over a year and never had any problems like this. I wondered if it had to do with the new lighting and quickly brought them to the vet. He said it some kind of bacteria, gave them a shot and prescribed SMZ suspension/cc/1cc to give to them once daily. He didn't think the lighting did it due to it only be 25 watt bulbs. He feels we got them there on time and they should be fine. But I'm very worried. I'm attaching some before and after pics to see anyone has any idea on what it is that is wrong with them. Thank you for your help!

sounds like thermal or UV burns to me.... UV and heat bulbs are not good to use with a nocturnal gecko, unless you need a low watt heat buld to raise ambient temps to the 70's in the tank.
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MY SITE

Full-spectrum bulbs are fine, and in fact I've seen geckos "perk up" and be more active when such a bulb is installed on their enclosure. They don't *need* UV, but IMO they do benefit from it, and if a 25 watt bulb could cause problems, then I would certainly have seen it with my gecko (she lives with a 40 watt full-spectrum bulb used to create her day/night cycle).

I'll grant you my evidence is based on what I've seen with a few animals, and is therefore not enough to generate relevant statistics from, but to say that UV bulbs are not good to use with nocturnal geckos without giving some evidence backing up your position is somewhat disingenuous.

Finally, why do you doubt a veterinary diagnosis? The vet has seen the animal in person; you've seen one picture.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

might want to read my post again. I said "sounds like" and "UV"

Want a link to a thermal burn from a UV bulb on geckoforums?

That image looks like a shedding gecko, so I only went by the info written.
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MY SITE

Heat transfer depends on how much energy is being transmitted, range, and the medium through which it's being transmitted. UV or not has zero bearing on it, as UV is not heat, so we can take that part out of the equation and concentrate on the amount of energy involved and the range (the medium is air unless you're telling me the gecko is touching the bulb). I just can't conceive of a gecko getting burned by a 25 watt bulb unless it was somehow allowed to be at very close range (an inch or two) to the bulb, or in direct contact with it. It's just not plausible. In fact, I would question how a 25 watt bulb could achieve a leopard gecko's preferred temperature range, let alone burn the gecko, in any kind of normally set up cage. It's not as though we're talking about hot rocks here.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

Well, actually to be fair, I think he said TWO 25 watt bulbs, but if it is a larger tank, there still isn't enough heat for burns at a normal range. (I have a master's degree in heat transfer, see the crested board for a rant if you like).

What I don't understand is what a desert 50 is that he lists after the two 25W bulbs?

PS I'm die hard in my defense of visible and UVB bulbs, I've done my own experiment and will never go back. The geckos ate better and were more active. Remember that in the wild they are dawn and dusk hunters and naturally would see the sun for a little while each day. My opinion of course.

Good luck with the gecko, we are all pulling for a quick recovery and a long and happy life.
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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

Well the desert 50 bulb in question is a high UV bulb that also emits heat by proxy. Call me crazy, but I thought UV causes sunburn in humans and leopard geckos are a nocturnal montane species who don't want thermal burns from desert 50 bulbs.

I promise never to enlighten anyone here again if it bothers people that my opinion isn't their own

This works wonders.
http://www.earthsbalance.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=15&idproduct=31
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MY SITE

That desert 50 bulb is a fluorescent, so the heat emitted is negligible compared to an incandescent of similar power output. Even if we're talking about the highest output bulb in the line (32 watts), that's still lower wattage than the full spectrum incandescent on my gecko's enclosure (40 watts, much more of which is heat than a fluorescent). I have seen zero ill effects, and, as stated before, full spectrum light, anecdotally, at least, seems to be beneficial.

As far as the sunburn factor goes, in order to achieve sunburn, the gecko would have to sit under it for extended periods. Not sure what geckos you're familiar with, but I've only very rarely seen leopard geckos out of hiding for long periods during daylight hours. They occasionally come out for a drink and a wander around their enclosure, but mostly stay hidden during the day, so actual exposure should, typically at least, be very low.

The concerns you're putting forth are only plausible in extremely unlikely circumstances. UV lamp mounted above enclosure is not equal to gecko forced to be continually exposed to UV unless you have provided the gecko with no hides, in which case we've got lots of husbandry issues to go over. I have no doubt that it is possible to cause a gecko to be sunburned if you hold it under a powerful UV lamp for a long time, but I can't come up with a reason why you'd do that which doesn't involve either malicious intent or negligent care standards.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

Well not only do I have experience, but I also have proper experience. Not that it matters, but I have nearly 170 geckos right now and every last one is 100% healthy. Owning a gecko for 10 years definately doesn't make you an expert, but I feel fairly confident in my ability.

As for the bulb, well hat bulb has a very high UV index and is for bearded dragons and chameleons

Being as that image shows me a underwieght? gecko on calcium sand, It's possible that the gecko may be laying under that bulb for a somewhat extended period of time.

Nothing against the poster, but that isn't proper husbandry. From that image I find it possible that the gecko could be searching out a warm area other than the warm side. How is the poster achieving the warm side temps, how are they measuring those temps.

If those temps are not high enough, the gecko will go to a warm area, even in the open, to be able to properly digest food.

Also, that vet should have told him his gecko looks thin and suggested wieght gain also.... if indeed it is under wieght.
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MY SITE

This discussion could very well scare off the original poster, much less everyone else. I asked about temperatures directly from his first post, let's wait for him to return and get some more information. From looking into the lights he mentioned I am more worried he has NO temperature gradient and it is lit up more like a fish aquarium.

You all have some things right and some things that are wrong (at least from a heat transfer radiation standpoint) Let's see what is really going on with the enclosure before everyone gets wrapped up in the quality and quantity revolving argument, please?

Take care everyone, remember we are here to share ideas and be helpful.

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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

Thanks everyone for giving your input on this issue. I called the online store I bought the lights from about the situation and this is what I got as a reply. The 25 watt bulbs used on this setup is not a normal bulb. It is higher intensity than what I was originally using (1x 75 watt bulb) He seems to think that since I used 2 of the high intensity 25 watt bulbs. That it upped the temperature too fast and that it heated the tank up too much. I did not know about the bulbs being more powereful I just looked at the wattage and figured two 25 watts would be ok to replace my one 75 watt. As far as a heat gradient I pointed both bulbs to the right of the tank, but that may not have been enough range and it could have heated the whole tank up said the technician on the phone. The lighting system does specify that it works well for Leopard geckos though so I thought it would be safe for them. As far as the thin gecko, the vet did say it was underweight but that it should be fine, I have been giving it some "Jump-Start" to help it along. By they way the picture of the Yellow one that looks like it's shedding, it's not shedding, that was after being handled by the vet and I think the blister popped on it's back.

I was not trying to bash you in any way, seriously.

The gecko isn't real thin by all means, but does show signs of stress(illness, bacteria infection,burn..what ever it is).

here is my reasoning behind the bulb being the issue
Link

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MY SITE

Sad to say, my Sheba died yesterday... Now I'm worried about Zenobia. Here are some pics. Let me know what you think this is and what can be done to help her. Thanks all.

I guess I am unfamiliar with some of your light set up and am unsure as to why you are using so many bulbs. Is it a large enclosure? I would go with what the vet said first, but just so everything is correct for them:

Do you have hot and cold side temperatures you could share with us?

Keeping the temperatures in line will be one of the ways of ensuring a speedy recovery for any sick gecko. I'm sure the treatment the vet gave you will help. Good luck.
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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

Yes, it is most likely a bacterial infection, BUT this can be secondary to a fungal infection. I have seen this in animals kept on sand that becomes moist. I saw in the picture that your gecko is on sand. This isn’t recommended. Sand can be a harbinger of incredible levels of bacteria as well as being an impaction risk if too much is consumed. Not to mention a growing media for fungi.
I have seen this type of infection cured by placing the animal on a paper towel substrate, maintaining proper temperature, and the use of a topical ointment like Neosporin or Bactraban. It is a good idea to clean the skin surface, prior to applying the ointment, with something like hydrogen peroxide. Betadine or similar iodine base are also a good idea, but used sparingly as it can inhibit healing. Also remember to change the paper towel substrate as soon as any waste is found, to reduce bacterial levels.