Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have had a Thayeri female fore quite some time and she developed a few bumps on her side and one near the vent.

I have had her checked out by a pretty good vet (as far as snakes go) here in Vermont, she took some fluid from the bumps and they cmae back w/o any answers to what it may be, she did say that the fluid inside looked fatty though.

As for the snake she hasnt changed at all as far as muscle tone feeding response, shed cycles, or activity.

Just curious if anyone else has encountered anything like this.

Plus this girl came from some great blood lines and from a very reputable person.

thanks
Adam

this is her, pre bumps

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Positive Thoughts Equal Positive Results

Hey Adam, hope all is well..

Lots of times thayeri (and alterna) develop fatty deposits around the vent area.. Especially if you feed them rat pups instead of less fatty mice..

Of course its tought to tell without seeing the animal or a pic.. So, of course this is just a guess..

Hope to talk to you soon!

~ Mike Russo

Sorry to say I don't have much experience in this field. I know lots of other animals develop fatty deposits that are benign but for a snake I can see how it would be aesthetically displeasing and get in the way of the snake. The other person who has so far replied to your post is probably on to something. Perhaps a diet change would be beneficial??? That is a very beautiful snake though.

Anyway, since I don't have an answer there wasn't much point in me posting except you said you are from VT. I've only encountered one other Vermonter on these boards other than myself so it's nice to see another! Did you take your snake to the vet in Essex? I've never had cause to visit the essex vet but I hear she's pretty good with reptiles.

Just to follow up... i have no idea what Adam is feeding this animal.. And, I am sure that there are other reasons that fatty deposits develop.. Like genetics..

Adam, What are you feeding this snake and can u post a pic of the bumps?

~ Mike Russo

yeah Essex vet is pretty good, i saw sue Dyer but she isnt there anymore, but doctor Elziabeth is pretty good too from what i hear.
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Positive Thoughts Equal Positive Results

It sounds like fatty deposits. I've seen them on corns and milks. It's usually bumps (sometimes elongated) on the side of the snake right before the vent. Snakes can get them even if they are fed only mice.

The deposits are harmles and won't affect the snake's health and breeding - but they never go away.

Tim

Third Eye

....not that you need another opinion but I agree with Tim. I worked with some corn snakes and a timber rattlesnake a while back that developed them. As this was a zoo situtation, you can imagine they were looked at every which way by our vets and fatty deposits was all that we ever came up with. The animals that developed them were older animals that were not overweight and fed a diet of strictly mice. We even tried cutting back their diet and they did not go away. The snakes, however, were none the worse for wear.

Rob

I figuered fatty deposits also, but I really do appreciate the feed back from everyone. as far a as diet goes she has been getting a mixture of mice and rats her whole time with me, i have noticed that since decreasing her prey size, the bumps on her side have gone down, but the one near the vent has stayed the same, i dont have any pictures right now but she is fresh shed i will take some tonight

thanks again all
adam

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Positive Thoughts Equal Positive Results

I too would say fatty deposits, but I offer a different reason for them.

I believe they occur from not having high enough temps to CHOOSE from. As in, they are undermetabolized. Changing food types is only a bandaid fix. Up the temp choices and it will prevent them and also cause them to SOMETIMES go away. Cheers

Thanks for the input, that definatly could make sense seeing as she is due for a tub upgrade, i have a few others too around her size that dont show the bumps, but obviously they are different snakes so that doesnt mean much.

my tubs are all set at 83 for my mexicana and alterna but the gradient i can see wouldnt be perfect for a larger snake outgrowing the tubs, I will definatly think about that when getting them into new tubs

thanks
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Positive Thoughts Equal Positive Results

I am positive that 83F has very little to do with snake biology.

In our field work all sizes, juvis to adults, thermoregulate. They pick from hot temps near 100F to low temps in the fifties(year a round)

83F or thereabouts, is only something humans use as a HANDY MIDDLE OF THE ROAD temp. Which may allow average success, but IS NOT what these snakes are designed for.

Therefore, there are immune problems, parasited problems, gram-negative bacteria problems and it appears fatty tissue problems.

So while 83F is nice, its merely a human thing. Cheers

Yeah I understand 83 is just a number, I get the concept, pretty much i got that number from some of leaders/breeders past and present in the Mexicana hobby, they have been doing it much longer than I have so I went with the info I got from them, seems to work pretty well for me and plenty others.

Thank you, I really appreciate the info

Adam
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Positive Thoughts Equal Positive Results

Adam,

I have seen lots of spots/lumps/bumps on snakes of all types and they have ranged from malignant cancers, to fatty tumors, (yes an abnormal fat deposit is still considered a tumor) to fluid filled cysts, to viral pustules, to localized infections...you get my point.

Asking people on here for health advise is asking for trouble.

You did the right thing by going to the vet. She should be able to tell you with some confidence if all she saw was fat cells. It would look like a droplet of oil smeared across her microscope view. Ask her specifically if she saw any white blood cells at all and ask if she feels confident with the answer she is giving you. A lot of times a vet won't get a great sample if the tumor is solid but since she just charged you for looking under the microscope she might be reluctant to tell you that. Often the only way to know is to remove one of the masses and send it to a lab, obviously thats more expensive than just poking it with a needle.

A few questions...

Are the scales over the lumps normal appearing?

Are the lumps movable IE are they within the skin or are they attached to deeper tissue?

Have more appeared over time or did they all appear at once?

The best advice I can give is to measure them all carefully and write down how many and their locations. Or photograph them accurately. If they change size/shape or multiply its time to get one removed and send it to a lab to find out what it really is.

I had a dumerils boa years ago that would get these fluid filled pustules. I did everything under the sun and we were never able to figure out what caused them. Sometimes its just a mystery. I have also seen these fatty tumors that other posters have mentions. As far as what causes those... take your pick, no one understands all the reasons for cancer...genetics, environment, old age, fatty diets, poor temps...who knows.

Good luck and let us know what happens. I would love to see some closeup pics if you can.

Cheers