Reptile & Amphibian Forums

High for these snakes?

Is it becuase of hatchling mortality/numbers?

Of course what price is to high for me anything higher then $100.00.

So what is it, why do these snakes from Texas command more money? Please open my eyes as to why, I have always wanted a pair or two but I can never find the right price..

I ask this is becuase most of these snakes at one point in time were field collected in TX, then hatched F1s and sold for xx.xx? Have they increase or decreased or have been steady for the past 10 years?

If I could go outside and field collect a snake and turn around and sell F1s for 125 bucks now that is something.. Not trying to offend anyone just wanting to learn why the "higher" price is justified.
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Lots of babies for $50 or $75.00. Nice ones too. Try John Fraser when the 08 hatching season comes around.

Or are you talking adult snakes? because I don't think you'll find any adults for less than $125 or more.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org
http://www.kingsnake.com/mexicana/
http://www.joeforks.com

I have seen them go as cheap as $30

Now, the price can be a lot higher depending on the breeder / locality / overall look of the animal.

If you think they are expensive try looking at the ball python morphs with names lifted off a starbucks menu... cinnamon / mocha / latte / ......
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

>>I have seen them go as cheap as $30
>>
>>Now, the price can be a lot higher depending on the breeder / locality / overall look of the animal.
>>
>>If you think they are expensive try looking at the ball python morphs with names lifted off a starbucks menu... cinnamon / mocha / latte / ......
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>>___________________________
>>Herp Conservation Unlimited

Lol so very true but I never liked BP, even back in the day when there wasnt an morph for every day of the week.. Highest BP i have seen was 75k in daytona, crazy..

Back to GBK I was going off the clasified for neonates and adults, I will check out some of the Breeders you guys listed...

Have any sites I could take a look at as well?
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

I would just go the way you are pointed..

Look at the classifieds here
Contact the breeders listed here
Visit shows / expos as you can
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

www.kingsnake.com/alterna/breeder.html

these are the folks breeding alterna that you should seek first.

Fraser is listed, he still has some on his web site though that could be in error at this month of the year.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org
http://www.kingsnake.com/mexicana/
http://www.joeforks.com

It all comes down to supply and demand, and the work that goes into the project. I'll list some of these reasons (in no particular order):
1. There are far fewer people working with, let alone producing, alterna than say, corn snakes or honduran milks. However, LOTS of people want them. Their prices reflect that.

2. Locality specific snakes ALWAYS command higher prices, for a number of reasons. I won't get into the depths of this unless it's something you're interested in. Many alterna are bred as locality specific snakes, and are priced accordingly.

3. Trips to West Texas can be expensive and there's no guarantee that the hunt for a gray band will be successful. Thus, founder stock is "expensive" to come by, and the neonates they produce reflect that.

4. Neontate alterna can be a challenge to get established, and take a degree of experience. Prices reflect that.

There are numerous other reasons and sub-reasons for the steady price of alterna, and maybe more will be posted. However, this ought to give you an idea as to why they've held their value. I wouldn't consider them a high priced snake by any means (when compared to certain boids, etc.), but tend to consider them to be priced fairly. As others have stated, generics (non-loclity) can be found for relatively low prices. If locality doesn't matter to you, go this route and enjoy the snakes.

Hope this helps
-Cole

Not an alterna, but a HWY 118 L.t. celaenops

Thanks for the responses everyone!!

I did forget about locality with these guys being a very huge deal..
Its has been a long time about 10 years since I looked at Alterna, this time I have loads more space so several new species are in my radar and these guys might be the ticket!!
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Cole,

I think you said it. Locality alterna are not always easy to come by. Especially WC stuff.

Very nice explanation.

SXO792

From what I've seen, very few GBK breeders even break even. Especially not the ones that catch their own breeding stock. Most are just trying to offset some of their costs so they can afford to spend more time in the field.

The only way to make money breeding GBKs within a reasonable time frame would be to buy someone else's inexpensive captive bred animals, or get really lucky with some unknown morph. Even then, you'll only do well if you are either very good or very lucky.

Most GBK nuts are in it for the animals, not the ever elusive profit. More and more GBK "hunters" don't even bother to collect what they find, unless it is truly exceptional.

Of course the really big breeders can turn a profit, but that is mainly based more on economy of scale than a high return on investment.

What does F1 mean? Thanks!

Go to Wiki and type in F1 Hybrid.
Matt

F1 is short-hand for First Filial. It's a term related to genetics and breeding. Long story short, it means the first generation offspring of the parent generation. A pair of wild caught snakes would be the parent generation to captivity. Their offspring would be the F1 generation. If you breed two F1s together, you get F2s.

Hope this helps.
-Cole

Collecting an alterna may be harder and cost more than you think. It is easy to spend a $1000 on a 10 day trip (food, fuel and lodging), depending on how far from the Trans Pecos you live. Spending a $1000 and 10 days collecting is no guarantee that you will get home with breeding stock. If I had a dollar for every guy who spent a $1000 and didn't find an alterna, well, I would probably have the $1000 I need for my next trip!! In 07 we found 3 males, it could cost $5000 or $6000 to pair them up and only if we are lucky, so if you end up with $10,000 or $12,000 in 3 pair (if you are lucky), $125 for an F1 baby sounds pretty cheap.

>>Collecting an alterna may be harder and cost more than you think. It is easy to spend a $1000 on a 10 day trip (food, fuel and lodging), depending on how far from the Trans Pecos you live. Spending a $1000 and 10 days collecting is no guarantee that you will get home with breeding stock. If I had a dollar for every guy who spent a $1000 and didn't find an alterna, well, I would probably have the $1000 I need for my next trip!! In 07 we found 3 males, it could cost $5000 or $6000 to pair them up and only if we are lucky, so if you end up with $10,000 or $12,000 in 3 pair (if you are lucky), $125 for an F1 baby sounds pretty cheap.

I guess my thought was you would go out in your back yard, meaning 5 miles radius which was a big assumption on my part hehe..

If all goes well in 5-10 years time you "might" recoup that money spent and then some but at the very least it would be fun...

Anyway I can appreciate the costs involved all I needed was some information!! Thanks all!
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Pair of Locality Alterna (1.1) costs you 250 in price as hatchlings. You feed them for 4 years each. Let's say .50 cents a pinky for the first year. .75 cents a fuzzy second year, and mice for the last 2 years a 1.00 each.

Total cost just to get your Alterna up to breeding size...

So for 4 years worth of food for your pair.
$338
the cost of your initial investment. $250.

So far you are up to $588 in cost for one pair of Alterna.

Now compair this to 1000 per year per trip, with no Guarantee of finding one. Could take one trip, could take 5 trips.
So compare $1000-5000 for one pair versus $588.

(This doesn't take into account the amount of TIME spent) Just actual dollars.

So, Captive Born tend to be bargains really. Don't feel bad though. I have questioned the prices of some animals that I have seen on the classifieds.

Best Wishes,

Steven Owens

WOW, I like your cost break down Steve!

After looking at those numbers I think we should all raise our prices on our '08 hatchlings!!

Hope all is well with everyone.. I have not been around too much the past few weeks because I started a new job and i have been running myself ragged!

~ Mike Russo

.

Just be sure and run those males ragged this year Mike!
Also how's this:
In '05 a friend and I went and he found 2.2 (2 males, 2 females), both males were adults, both females yearlings. I found zero. We spent a little less than the $1000, but that was close, I have made as many as 6-7 trips a year since, and still have none to show.
One of the adult males died, and 1.2 were Langtry and the other male was from Osman's Canyon. I am not sure which male perished, so he either has a great start on one local, or a good start on one and 1/2 way on another. Plus he must wait for the females to reach size.
We both struck out last year as well, he put in a solid week out there and hunts like no one else I know!
Oh yeah, the flat tires cost a lot too!
You could buy some really nice one's and save yourself a bundle, but miss out on a lot of fun and adventure!

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Todd Hughes