Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, everybody. I've been a big fan of field herping all my life, and now that I'm in college I've sorta decided that my new life goal is to find and photograph every snake in native to my home state of Pennsylvania. Of the seven or eight species that I know to live near my house, the only one I've never found (live) in the wild is the eastern milk. I know they're out there, because I've seen two of them just moments after other people had taken a shovel to them. However, I just can't seem to find them... I know people don't like giving away locations or hotspots, but does anyone have some photo's of habitats where they've had a lot of success, so I can figure out what I'm missing? The area I live in is mainly a dairy farming region, and I know that I should (in theory) be able to find them under boards and roofing tin in open fields, but so far it hasn't been panning out. Any habitat pics or tricks of the trade would be much appreciated! Thanks a bunch.

I have never been east, and don't have the experience, but from what I gather in the midwest they are found under flat rocks. I would assume close to a water supply but not always. I do not know what the geography is like there, are there any such fields of rocks?
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Todd Hughes

There are lots of fields, but being that it is farmland, most flat open areas are rock-free (plows and limestone don't get along!). There are lots of eastern garters (Thamnophis sirtalis) and northern water snakes (Nerodia sipedon), but I'm having a hard time with the milks. Black rats, black racers, copperheads, and timber rattlers I can find withing about half and hour of my house-there is a big boulder field on a nearby mountain-but I've only seen two eastern milks. One was chopped in half in my church parking lot by a pastor, and one was chopped in half in my scoutmaster's garden (he lives in a wooded area).

since the preacher and scoutmaster are stupid...

look near the church and scout leader's home??????????

......boards, tin,rotting fallen sheds,cardboard,old mattresses,any trash at all can hide milks...rock piles,even along the road like at creek crossings......they can be fast there......

wet springs are better......

.......
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Scoutmaster?? I would say you are young, and that you havent spent the time in the field to get to know the animals and the environment. I would encourage you to get offline and spend time outside, books and info here only go so far. There are certain days that are better than others, and after you spend years in the field figuring it out a light will go on and it is much easier. The same places you hunt to find racers, garters, etc...they ALL have milks there. But there is a reason you arent finding them. YOU have to figure this out, it wont mean anything to you if someone tells you how. Milks are literally EVERYWHERE. Think of all the different options...timing,cover,temp,proximity to deep cover, weather, they ALL are important. Now figure out where/when these other guys found the milks....what was the weather? What was the cover? Etc....you can do this, good luck!J

No offense man, but if you had read my first post you'd know that I'm in college. Bucknell University, freshman, 19 years old, been catching snakes all my life. I appreciate your help and experience, but don't assume I'm a kid please.

I told you what you were looking for, but you didnt put it together. I said you didnt spend enough time in the field, didnt call you a kid. If you are finding those sp. and you live in PA milks are all over. Now if you arent finding them dont study milks, study YOU. When are you going to look for them? Where are YOU looking for them? What was the weather like a day, 3 days, a week before?? Are you setting up proper habitat as you go so next time you will have a better chance? Basically its HOMEWORK. The snakes are there, you just have to find them. If you are good at science take notes, apply everything toward a goal. Learn what works and what doesnt. Remember, they arent there when YOU want them to be, you have to be there when THEY want to be....Get it? J

I have found milks here in Mass every month from April-December. One year I was out deer hunting, 35-40 degrees, and a baby was crawling across the trail I was hunting. Had nothing to put him in, stuck him in my pocket and forgot about him for the day. When getting back to the car that night I put my hand in my pocket and I found a warmed up, happy little milksnake! He could have gotten away at any time, but he liked his warm spot....

Didn't mean to get defensive like that, I just didn't want to be dismissed as an impatient kid. Thing is, I haven't really launched an all-out search for them, but I've been casually searching for years-I laid tin roofing sheets out in our cow pastures (I live on a farm), I've searched along creek bottoms under flat rocks, I searched the woods and fields around my church, I've tried after rains, early in the spring through late summer, and for some reason I come up short year after year. I guess I'll just keep trying...

Is your tin on the EDGE of the field, is the field unkept? What time of the day have you been there? How soon after a rain have you been there? How MUCH rain was there? What was the weather like after the rain? What it the air temp? What is the GROUND temp? If you want to get serious in finding them take a diary with you, a temp gun, and record as much info as you can. When you finally do find em you will them know exactly what works and what doesnt. And what time of the year you hunt will determine what SIZE snake you find too...

19 is a kid........LOL....sorry.........Pa is not all good milk country and is not full of them....they are here....Lebanon is good a area.....so keep looking in new areas.......*(I'll be 48 next month,I have 27 year old kids, so I can call 19 a kid).....J/K

Jeffrey
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As a scoutmaster myself, yours should know better! Ask him to turn you on to a Reptile and Amphibian Study merit badge counselor, or if you are older now, you could still seek the advice of one. Usually they are a herpetologist or a field herper with intimate knowledge of the species in their area.
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Todd Hughes

here in Lancaster county and York county.......I find green shades of garters......in Tioga/Potter Lycoming I saw rust colored.......your pic is brownish....what county.?..

......wooded with fields is where they are....actually underground is where they prefer.....

I have never found a milk except for a few babies around 1970......LOL........I don't look much either.....

they are here.......if you find a local.....they can be numerous, other areas they can be totally non-exsistant

what county?
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np

LOL.......still good areas up there....

north of E-town is where a guy once got a 3 1/2 footer and a 4 footer......hot summer......creek area.....not correct timing in my mind but ...anyways..

I don't know squat about Lebanon Co......I do know there are good areas for all kinds of critters up there.....never saw racers in Lancaster Co but Lebanon they were.....

(Etown again, different guy, grass,mowed field, a pile of eggs just laying there in the open?...What the hell huh,,they were racers, he hatched them and I hope he left them go as I asked him to.....eggs in open cut lawn?..wierd.....)

snakes,,,,are pocketed.....one area you may find milks all the time yet never anywhere close to it.....

keep looking........well...wait a few weeks......

although a guy here just north of Columbia saw a little hole in the sand in a sandbox,,,,stuck his fingers down and pulled out a 2 - 2 1/2 foot milk......he left it by the bank at the hill near his yard,,,,cause there are holes and rocks there......ummmm....also there is snow there you idiot, and it was 20 degrees......? ...duh......non-snake people....

.......female milk found here IN Columbia , park along a creek ,but right IN town.....she is here, just brought her out of brumation today,,,,last year she ate like 8 times tops then stopped.....she looks ok...(given to me by kids cause it wouldn't eat for them)

.....there are no rules or secrets usually....they are where they are.......
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The best place to find easterns is vertical rock faces. Vertical soil cliffs with lots of roots and nooks and crannies have also proven popular. I have always had good luck looking in the rock cuts on the sides of highways in the northeast. I have found many far from water and at almost any time of year (not the dead of winter)

They may utilize different habitats in dif places but I have never found one in an open field setting with only scattered cover, always rocky areas.

Once you find them, go back to that area. Easterns tend to stay put pretty well. I found the same eastern with a stub tail within 3 feet of where I found him the year before, and about 10 feet from where I originally caught him 4 years before that. I'm looking for a pic of him.

Cheers and good luck

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"Upon Thy Belly Thou Shalt Go"

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"Upon Thy Belly Thou Shalt Go"

Well I'm in FL but visit nw PA once in a while. There are some species I still need to find for sure up there..
I'd say where you saw a dor or one that has been killed is your best shot at finding another.
Everyone I talk to up there says they see the spotted adders in their garden or nearby where they may have placed those flat stones or logs. If you are finding red bellies and such, I'd think you are in the right area if you also add that to a close-by dor or killed milksnake.
Here's one from Warren county,PA

I may head up again this summer to find and photo another..
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Try digging around in wood chip piles in the early sping. It is about the only place I run into them around my house in western NYS(20 miles north of Warren, PA). They seem to like the warmth of compost piles. Good luck.
Russ P

Thanks! That's a great looking black rat, by the way- NY locale? The pics of NY black rats I've seen look a lot like the ones I've seen in PA.

Just a het for amel that I picked up with a mate for it at a show years ago as hatchlings, both for $7 each. Don't know the locale but my son was able to photo a large Bl. ratsnake near lake Erie at Ripley, NY(near the PA border) that looked exactly like this one.