Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, my name is Daniel. I've been keeping and breeding boas for many years now. I also enjoy my green tree python and a few milksnakes. I mention this so you know im not a snake "idiot" asking a bumb question. I know what cleaning snakes for HOURS is like. That being said..... Im looking for an unexagerated expression of how bad Indigos really are with poop. I've heard people speak of them shooting poop all over the cage, etc. Is this the norm. for these animals or a stretch. How about the smell? Please be detailed if possible. This issue is the only one keeping me from getting started with these beautiful animals! Thanks for your time and honest opinion, Dan Klopson.

Dear Daniel,
I think Drymarchon defecations are more odorous than most other reptiles per unit of mass (pretty fancy talk about "poop". I am highly motivated to clean it up as soon as I am aware of it, as one can not ignore it, and your domestic partner will quickly remind you. Mine is a nurse, and she smells everything before I do. I believe (Drys-not nurses!) they defecate more often than say a boa with the same size meal, often within 2 or 3 days of ingesting a meal. I think easy to clean substrate is the way to go, I use practical but not pretty newsprint. Perhaps a little more work than many animals, but I think people have exagerated the problem. I once had a puff adder (Bitis) that would "hold it" for many days and several meals, then let loose like a fire hose and spay it all over the cage. Now that was a pain in the neck...
just get over it and take the plunge, you will have fun. Vic

Thanks for your thoughts Vic.. do you have to wipe walls and ceilings down twice a week or is it more typically just the news print floor is a mess?

Daniel,
usually no, they just do it in corner or some place on the paper. for this reason I like plastic or well sealed vivariums with rounded corners, easy to wipe clean. I usually toss the paper, and wipe the cage interior with water/household vinegar to clean the wall if needed. It may vary depending on diet, I only feed rats/mice with an occassional fish. I think this rumor in part was reenforced by a well meaning author who wanted to discourage the collecting of wild Texas indigos and make them unattractive as "pets". It is a fact that they smell odd, have faster metabolism and stools may be "looser" than boas/pythons. I think Indigos are the opposite of your GTP, Indigos are interactive and feed frequently and therefore defecate frequently. The work is reasonable for the benefits, and I think the negatives have been exagerated and often repeated by persons with limited experience. I only feed adults once/week, less in the Winter. What say the brethren? Daniel is obviously doing thorough research before aquiring a Drymarchon. Good luck, and I commend you for researching before buying. Vic

Thanks again for your time and thoughts. I had one of these fantastic animals set on my shoulders at a zoo reptile show 25 years ago.... I've wanted one ever since! I'd like to know REAL facts from people who deal with them every day before I get a group. Thanks again.... anyone else? So far this sounds reasonable to me! Dan

Hi Dan,

I think the poop issued depends on what and how much you feed
your Indigo. Please see the "Put it into a paper" thread below,
that pretty much sums up my experience and thoughts on the diet/doody thoughts.

Regardless, I think you'd be happy either way. The Indigo
is an awesome snake, I really enjoy mine!

Thanks,
Ed

>>Thanks again for your time and thoughts. I had one of these fantastic animals set on my shoulders at a zoo reptile show 25 years ago.... I've wanted one ever since! I'd like to know REAL facts from people who deal with them every day before I get a group. Thanks again.... anyone else? So far this sounds reasonable to me! Dan

Thanks, I'll check it out! Dan

i'd have to agree w/ vic, the odor is kinda different but the workload is pretty much the same. it's really no biggie except by certain [im]posters. spilotes however are truely a mess! LOL!

Man!! Looks like fun!

we're just having a blast. now there's 2 of them in there to double my pleasure & guess what?......they both bite! :>/

Beautiful animals.... but not for me!!

Do they headbutt first?

funny you should ask. yeah, sort of. the male [shown] whacked me in the face while cleaning the other day from about 3' away. i never saw it coming, just BAM! his lower jaw hooked under my eybrow & his upper just below my hairline. he left me w/ a knot on my forehead for a few days. i muttered something like, 'no rats for you' & staggered to the sink. now i see he's gone into blue so i guess he was just having a bad day....or something.

Indigos fed rodents and kept on newspaper are no worse than bull snakes or pine snakes for odor or cleaning. Train yourself to clean cages at least twice a week. Newspaper is the best substrate. Forty years ago I kept one on a diet of mostly frogs. His dumps were generally spread around the cage and could be detected up the street.

Good to know, no frogs!

Also no poultry or fish. I worked with a fairly large group of them in the early to mid 1990s and can tell you that the Perks far outweigh the Poops.

I don't keep couperi yet but I'm working on keeping them, I just want the background before I bring those gems into my collection.
I've been working with NA colubrids for around 8 years not counting the 5 year hiatus when I was Skiing and bumming around.
When I got the itch again I picked up a pair of Black Pines, kept them for a year and made some babies! I spent that money on a Spilotes and a pair of Drymarchon Melenarus and have them for around a year now.
All awesome snakes that I knew they would be.
In terms of poo, the Spilotes takes the cake with the ariel assult, The Pines win for stank and the Cribos for frequency.

After getting the cribos I almost wanted to get rid of the pines for a pair of indigos but realized I love the couch potato snakes and might as well get some Indi's too



PS they're not like boids at all.
Nate

Daniel

I've had my 7' plus male for about 2 years. I heard all the horror storys about the stink & mess. It's not that bad as long as you clean it quickly. I use cell sorb plus and I just spot clean the droppings. Grab it, bag it up and get it outside. It helps to have the cheap disposable gloves from Wal Mart. I feed him a medium rat every 7 to 10 days and he gives me a dump 2 days after and some times again about 2 days after that.
What ever substrate you use, just clean it quick - good advise for any snake.
Go for it - you'll be glad you did - these guys are awesome!

Steve

Thanks again all for the time you've spent sharing your experiences with these animals! You've talked me into it! I have over 40 snakes....and I find my self day dreaming about these!! Dan

Hi Daniel,

Years back, mostly different folk inhabited this forum. The forum seemed to focus more on responsible keeping and conservation. Now, it seems mostly about pics.

At that time this commonly posed question about Indigo stink would be answered like this: Yes, they stink and they poop frequently under the best conditions for the snake. Cold blooded feed stinks way more than rats, but that is for the bar set by the indigo, which is pretty extreme compared to pines or pythons.

Now the forum's content seems to have gone down quite a lot compared to the old days. I will tell you that I was offered a breeding pair of Indigos from an acquaintance(bred lots of reptiles) that told me "No one told me they stink so bad, I just want to get rid of them." I later did get into indigos, but only after seeing firsthand what it was like. Then, I was able to weigh out the pros and cons. I can't do this for you.

Also, it used to be heard that Indigos can be kind of finicky.

Sometimes, within the last year or two I have seen posted here that "Indigos make great beginner snakes" and no one really contested him.

You can keep the animal healthy and clean if you are willing to put in the work. Its a lot of work compared to other kinds of snakes. Its a labor of love.

I would suggest visiting an indigo from a guy who isn't trying to sell you one.

If you can accept the charge then do it, if not, save yourself and the snake a mutually unrewarding relationship.

Note* I am not selling any indigos! I am not trying to build a market. My response differs accordingly!

Good Luck to you.

Matt

Very refreshing post, thank you Matt. I've spent the last month or so speaking with folks who keep these animals... some demonize them and some make them out to be cornsnakes! So thanks for the non market motivated information. I've been keeping and breeding dozens of large snakes in my facility for many years now. Some very challenging breeds. I know the time involved with keeping animals that need more attention than a "pet snake" would. I also know what its like spending ALL Saturday cleaning animals! I know these take time and work... I don't care about the smell... they dont live in my home. Mostly, I just dont want to clean poop off the walls, ceiling, etc... everyday! From what I've gathered, this sounds unlikely if not rare. I guess I'll find out soon enough.. thanks again, Dan

Dan,

I got a 14" baby back in Dec and too dreaded dealing ith this subject. I keep him in my bedroom to boot. I have Aspen shavings and moss for the humidity. I feed him 2 times a week to keep him eating (can be very finicky) and growing. When he goes, it's usually under the substrate and more times than not, next to the wall. When I notice a smell, I clear him out and start to look. What I do is take a plastic shopping bag (hand inside, used like a glove) and a paper towel and grab the matter and any contaminated surrounding substrate...wiping as much as possible before removing from the cage. Then clean and dry. Takes 5 Min. When he gets bigger, I'm sure I'll have to come up with something different but that is a few years away. He is one of my favorites snakes and still when I watch him, I still can't believe that I actually have a Eastern Indigo! They are active, quick, smart and beautiful animals.

Kenny

0.0.1 Western Hognose
2.3.0 GTP (Biak, Sorong, Aru, Merauke and Biak x Aru)
1.1.0 Retics (Madu x Calico and Calico)
1.0.0 Guyana Red Tail Boa
0.1.0 Peruvian Red Tail Boa
1.0.0 Eastern Indigo

Thanks for your input, I'd like to see some pics of your set up if ever you're taking pictures of him! Thanks Dan

Here is an attempt to mimic a Discovery Channel camera man. It's a clip of him eating for the first time out of a "feedbox" and out in the open. It was a bit of a struggle at first but now he eats anytime, anywhere. He was eating only live mice pinkies before I bought him. The substrate is abount a inch deep and he craps to the right..under the moss..that keeps it from spraying around for now.[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-n3G-Gr3W0[url] I hope the URL comes through!
Link

Your link worked just fine, your little guy is off to a great start. The day will come when it quits playing with its food and just violently grabs it off tongs if yours is like mine. Some other "entertaining" films also seen on Indigos, not real accurate (A Sistrurus for prey, not a diamondback, an Elaphe, not a Pituophis...) but good footage of rarely seen animals. Vic