Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a alb nelsons and a alb ruthvens I was thinking about breeding and was wondering if anyone had done this. Also, what genes are allelic through other sp.? That is to say breeding different albino(or other gene)species and getting albinos in the f1 generation. Thanks for any info,J

For the most part the answer is no. Nelsoms amel and ruthvens amel do not reside on the same locus. I know of only one case where this is the case. That is with the Ulra/Ultramel Cornsnake. This snake is derived from the hypo "ultra" allele residing on the same locus as the cornsnake amel allele.

This breeding resulting in the codominance of the ULTRA gene of the gray ratsnake and the AMEL gene of the cornsnake.

No other cases of this exist that i know of. Resulting morphs in hybrids are "except for above" all from second generation breedings.

However where you will see other effects of this are in cases of one of the breeding snakes actually being hybrid though sold as pure. Suspected exampled of this would be

White sided bairds ratsnake "I believe is a hybrid" bred to a white sided black ratsnake producing all whitesided hybrids.

Another example would be albino splendida crossed with albino cal king. Now we know there are albino splendida that are that way due to hybridization with the cal king. However there is supposedly a line of PURE albino splendida. A simple test of this would be to breed this pure albino splendida to an albino call king and if normals were produced then this would prove its purity

hope that helps and i didnt confuse you more.
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles
Venom-Center -- Venomous Community
Wisconsin Reptile Community
Hybrid Herps-- Hybrid Community

I dont know where the info would be, but it would be nice if some people kept track of it. Example 1-- ghost glades were bred to whitesided black rats and whitesided offspring happened f1...so those are obviously the same gene from different ssp.. I have heard stories of some crosses showing in f1, but I came here to ask specific cases. I am talking like X corn x Y king not ssp. x ssp.. If anyone knows it would be nice to post please.Thanks,J

interesting i would like to know more. Were all of the offspring white sided ? Could the glades have been het whiteside? Would be very interesting if the white side and either anery or hypo were residing on the same allele. But without further info or breeding trials i dont know

But again axanthic or anery glades would be a hybrid wouldnt it or intergrade. Is there true example of anery in glades?

I would be very interested if there is any more known cases
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles
Venom-Center -- Venomous Community
Wisconsin Reptile Community
Hybrid Herps-- Hybrid Community

interesting i would like to know more. Were all of the offspring white sided ? Could the glades have been het whiteside? Would be very interesting if the white side and either anery or hypo were residing on the same allele. But without further info or breeding trials i dont know

But again axanthic or anery glades would be a hybrid wouldnt it or intergrade. Is there true example of anery in glades?

I would be very interested if there is any more known cases
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Dan, Yes, ws x ws = ws. I have no idea what would make you think HET. Anery/hypo on same allele?? What are you talking about?? Each gene has to be treated seperately until it pops up in F1, and that was the question I was asking. To ASSUME a anery ratsnake is either a hybrid or intergrade would be naive and wrong. I had triple het yellow rats(alb/lav alb/anery)and got rid of them mostly because talk like that eliminated demand.There are true anery yellows/glades. I think it impossible to seperate those 2 ssp. at this point in the wild.

Well first of all its not a stretch to think that there is a possibility that the glades was het for white sided as the white sided gene has been crossbred into them from the black ratsnake line. This was done quite easily actually hense why I asked if all offspring were white sided or just some.

Genetically that option is far more probably than the allele for either anery or hypo residing on the same locus as white side causing nothing but white sided to be produced. However I may be wrong hense ASKING FOR MORE INFORMATION.

As for anery in glades/yellow or whatever inform me of this, I just dont know. Where are pictures was the first found in the wild or popped up in breeding. While we are at in id like to know that information on the lavender albinos as well.

Its not nieve to suspect or at least ask. Do you know how many hybrids out there that are being sold as PURE??

I have no problem with hybrids, I like and create them. However I feel that if it is that is how it should be labeled no matter what market pressures are in place. If the kettle is black call it black

Anyway this was your chance to inform me of otherwise and you decided to go childish with the attack. So be it that will only reinforce peoples beliefs not convince them otherwise
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles
Venom-Center -- Venomous Community
Wisconsin Reptile Community
Hybrid Herps-- Hybrid Community

Amelanism in corns and sinaloans has apparently been proven allelic: http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1394407,1394731

I've also read from several sources that amelanism is allelic in corns and cal kings, but can't remember where to point you for verification on that one.

interesting to know. I wonder if it could be tested out to see if those are a codominant effect like ULTRA Amel

would half the litter be displaying corm amel and the other half displaying nelsons amel? I cant think of a way to test that out can you?
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles
Venom-Center -- Venomous Community
Wisconsin Reptile Community
Hybrid Herps-- Hybrid Community

I have proven that the albino gene in San Diego gophers is compatible with the amel gene in corns. Also the anery gene in Hondurans is compatible with the anery gene in corns. I've also proven the hypo gene in pueblans to be compatible with the original hypo (type A) in corns. Just thought I'd share the knowledge.

Ryan Beatty