Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Alright seems the validity of triangulum morphs is a current topic so... I'm admittedly not well versed as to the origins of the hypo pueblans. Anyone have any insight to share? Anyhting would be appreciated... I simply could not resist passing on a nice lil' hypo apricot female... only after the impulsive purchase did I even really give it's legitimacy a thought! Regardless I sit on both sides of the fence appreciating the natural beauty of non-morph locale animals as well as some of the 'hobby' morphs.

Thanks,
Chris

I want to see another pic of that white hypo coastal of yours.

...

Chris, those are some very nice looking snakes.

Seeya in August,

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Everything I was able to find out points to the owners of Bayou Reptiles purchasing an adult pair of normal campbelli... and they were bred together and there was a hypo or two in the clutch?

They seem pure to me.

I don't really know what somebody would mix with campbelli to attempt to make hypos? I think you'd easily be able to point a hypo honduran/pueblan cross.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

You think a 5 foot pueblan would be a dead give away?
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Walter smith is your missing link.Years ago chris and craig cullota in louisiana produced the first ones.Its back when I had the first halloween's out.I was to make a trade with Craig for some hypos and he up and died.Well, long story short walter got ahold of some hets or something from them and then he sold out to Rob Stevens.They weren't produced from normals if my memory serves me correct.
Look Walter up on the corn snake forum and ask him were he got his stock from and who he sold his stock to.I think maybe they said they were produced from normas cause the culotta's worked with some hybrids and didn't have a good reputation.

Shannon

Shannon, have you ever seen a hypo campbelli in person?

I still see no way they could even be a cross... I think a honduran/pueblan mix would look obvious, and I don't see what one could cross with a campbelli other than a honduran to get that hypo trait in there.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

yes, I have had them in the past.I have never thought they were anything but campbelli.

Shannon

The line came from Tim Ricks...
He never held back any of his babies so he didn't know any of them were carrying the hypo trait.... He got rid of them and hypos popped up in a breeding between normals.

And nice pic Shannon...
It is damn hard to get good pictures of the smaller ones. Mine are just starting to look nice but are killer feeders.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

I think they're pure and I think there are two bloodlines out there. I bought some from Rob Stevens of Bayou Reptiles a few years ago. In talking with him, he produced some from normal looking parents. He also told me that Mark Bell produced some hypo peublans the same year Rob did, so I understand there is a Bell line floating out there as well.

Dave

DNS Reptiles

Very nice banding on that animal!!

Chris

That's a great looking example too!,......even a chimp could tell that is a true campbelli.

Now the "so-called" albino campbelli that I have heard about, and have seen pics of, are a different story all together!..LOL! they had hondurensis written all over them!

take care, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Doug, A few years ago a guy I kinda knew got ahold of me and said he had produced a couple amel camobelli out of a pair of normals.This was in (03).
I was able to talk him out of a male amel and a poss het female.He kept the other male amel and all the poss hets.I saw pics of the adults and they were just classic semi dirty campbelli.I had and should say have no reason to think they were anything but campbelli.
I tried to do some homework and all we could come up with is that he had bought them in Orlando as just campbelli for $50.00 each in (00) they were ready to breed adults.
I did the math and if they were hets from ruthveni,nelsoni or hondurensis they would have had to hatched in (97 or 98).
The first baby hondurans were available in (96) and they were 3k each.The first nelsoni were available in like (94) and the first ruthveni were available in about (92).
I really doubt that if somebody would have crossed the two (I have seen ruthveni crosses and you can tell right off the bat)that they would have sold them so cheap etc....
Seconly I have seen nelsoni x campbelli also and you can tell that they are hybrids also.
So, I ruled out hondurans and was left with "they must be the real deal".
The guy had mis sexed them and I actually had two females.I raised them up a year or so and ended up selling the 2 snakes to Don Shores.Maybe he can give a update on them?

Attached is a pic of the amel in question.

Also, I had e-mailed the pics of the parents to Steve Osborne and he said they didn't look like they had any other influence in them.I guess time will tell.

Shannon

That snake doesn't look campbelli to me.

I wonder what Don Shores did with them. You'd think he'd be producing them by now?
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

Is it me or does the head look kind of elongated for a pueblan?
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

I see that too. More like nelsoni.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Here is a few Pics of the albino male and possible het female that should breed this year.

Pure?
Cross?

What is your take on what those are.
Because the head on the albino doesn't really look campbelli to me.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

And the ones I've seen (not many) all seem to have really good "equal" banding. That is, none of the odd extra wide "white" bands that many pueblans have.

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I've seen pueblan-ruthveni crosses that look more pueblan than that snake. Then again, it is hard to know from just a few pics, and I wouldn't argue with the seasoned breeders here. That long head though. That is hard to get past.
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Mark

I just looked at pics in the classifieds of Pueblans. At the right (or wrong) angle, the heads can look longer in one pic compared to another. I guess more photos are needed of that amel.

>>I've seen pueblan-ruthveni crosses that look more pueblan than that snake. Then again, it is hard to know from just a few pics, and I wouldn't argue with the seasoned breeders here. That long head though. That is hard to get past.
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>>Mark
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Mark

I have seen albino nelsoni X pueblan crosses that looked a lot like pueblans. All I know is what I have been told and I'm sure Shannon is going on that same assumption.

I personally saw het amel ruthveniXalterna at Don Wilson's(7 Generations) house in 1995 when I bought my original greeri stock from him. He said he got them from Osbourne. I only ever went to Don's house once in my life and I still have the greeri I bought that day(with notes as to when they were born) so I am very certain of the year.
What year did Osbourne start selling amel PueblanXRuthveni? I know he was making them at one time because he had a really nice apricot phase on display at the San Diego Show, just don't remember the year.

I was at Osborne's house in the 1994 time frame, and he had adults of ruthveni-crossed graybands all over the place. Geez were those beautiful. I didn't see campbelli but he spoke of the project.

In any case, it is hard to believe anyone would let those crosses go for cheap back then. I understand Shannon's logic on that, and his CSI-like analysis is convincing.
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Mark

Mark, I also sent the pics of the normal looking adults (I don't have them anymore darn it) to Osborne and he said that the time frame didn't match and that they didn't look like his hets at all.I guess time will tell?

L8r

Mike, I kind of agree but no one knows what an albino would look like so I'm not sure. The possible het looks pretty much like one.

Cool Don...I had no idea those were out there.

Good luck with breeding them this year - keep us posted.

Dave
DNS Reptiles

Don, did I misread Shannon's post. I thought he said that they were mis-sexed and that he ended up with two females? Is the amel a male or a female?
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Joe

I guess it was the other way around.It was supposed to be 2 females and thats why I sold them.I didn't want the super long 2 generations to find out what was what.Shortly after Don had them he called me and told me that the amel was actually a male.Score for him.

L8r

Thanks Dave, and Joe when they came in to me they were supposed to be two females but ended up being an albino male and possible het female.

Hi,

I bred a Bell line hypo to a het female from Bayou and got two hypos.

The lines do have at least the same locus.

Gerrit
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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

Thanks for the info... I'll look more into it. Two lineages... learning something new everyday. Nice to know they're 'pure' as well. I'll try to get a pic up of the new lil' girl...

Regards,
Chris