Reptile & Amphibian Forums

please excuse me for the long post but i really need help. I bought a young albino pac man frog from a reptile show about 15 months ago. The frog looked alert and active when i got him. I consulted a number of sources including the seller of the frog, a pac man frog book and a couple of articles in reptiles magazine in order to determine how to set up my frog. I decided on moist paper towels after reading an article in reptiles magazine.
I soon found that my frog was not behaving as he should. Not only did he not have a huge appetite, he had no appetite at all. I took a fecal sample to my vet and she found nothing out of the ordinary. So, I started force feeding my frog. He would keep down his food but would not eat on his own. I kept this up for about 8 months but he didn't grow much at all. I would feed him 5 or so calcium dusted crickets every couple of days.
After the first 3 months or so, someone told me that he probably wasn't eating because he didn't have a way to burrow and feel safe. So I switched to gravel. I know, big mistake. He swallowed a piece of gravel one day. I actually saw him do it because I was watching to see if he would eat the cricket I put in his cage. He missed the cricket but got the pebble. I immediately switched him to bead a beast. Amazingly he did regurgitate the pebble. I did not keep him on the bead a beast for very long because i was worried he would ingest too much of it. So I switched him to moss. During all of this I played around with heat lamps and undertank heaters.
Eventually, he did start to eat on his own. I thought it was something of a miracle. He would jump after his crickets and was doing ok. He ate on his own for about 4-5 months but did not grow. Also, he has never really had much use of his front legs. I don't know if this was a calcium deficiency from before I got him or if it was caused by something I did.
Three months ago, I moved to a new town and my frog has not been the same since. He has not eaten on his own since we moved even though nothing in his environment has changed. One day I came in to check on him and he was on his back. He had tried to get into a water bowl and flipped over and couldn't get back up. I flipped him back over and poured some warm water on him. He was alive but wouldn't open his eyes. It has been at least 6 weeks since this happened and he still almost never opens his eyes. I have gone back to force feeding him but he does not seem to be perking up at all.
Does anyone have any thoughts on any of this? Is there anything I can try or should I just throw in the towel. I will try anything that might work but I am just afraid that the stress of moving pushed him over the edge. Thanks for your help.

your stressing him way too much... changing his bedding 3 times...only feeding him crickets is a no no. He needs a varied diet of: Crickets, Waxworms, Feeder GUPPIES and Pinkie Mice (fullgrown mice when he gets full grown).

try using a thing called Eco Earth. It is coconut stuff but it comes in a block that u just soak in water and it gets REALLY big then just crumble it. put about 2-4 inches of it in to the frog will burrow. Pac Man frogs do not need UVB lighting, they wouldnt get any from burrowing anyways so ya.

Changing to a new enviroment for you is the same for your frog. Sure, his tank is fine and unchanged but being in an unfamiliar room could stress them, happened to mine. always, always if you have a pet problem, contact a vet just incase the frog was sick.

please try to remember that i was having to force feed him. i tried crickets, meal worms, super worms, earth worms, and guppies. the crickets were the only things he wouldn't spit out. Also, he was eating on his own before I moved and seemed perfectly happy with moss as his substrate. My question is why he might be keeping his eyes closed after getting stuck upside down and whether I should hope that he will get better.

umm, maybe he mite be..SICK! call a vet, i told u that last time i believe! you could have told us u tried other foods.he mite not have spit out the crickets BECUZ he wasnt introduced to other foods while young.

the eye thing...like i sed, call a vet, he may have a problem like and infection or a sensitivity to light, albino animals are VERY sensitive to light.

I did say that I took him to a vet and i also said that this eye problem began after he got stuck upside down. your suggestion that he might have an eye infection is cute but not exactly helpful. I actually work with a vet and he is not sure what the problem is. I came to this forum to seek advice from people who might have experienced the same things as I am now. You should really refrain from telling people what is wrong with their animal when you obviously havn't paid attention to what was said in the post in the first place. I am not someone who neglects their animals or takes their care lightly. I do not appreciate your sarcasm or your attitude.

Just remember not to feed pinkies mice or any kind of rodents. This will lead to lipid fat buildup and your frog may go blind.
I think it may even lead to death.

And go to a vet, and good luck
-----
CokeOfMan

WHOA!!! can't we all just get along?? Listen , I know that you are trying your best to do all you can for you your little frog, but the fact of the matter is that you are just doing too much. as far as i have seen with my own horned frogs, those eyes close up when they are either too dry or too hot. let me give advice on my tried and true metod of horned frog husbandry that i have used for years.First off, i use 10 gallon tanks so adjust accordingly. I USE GRAVEL! I always have and I always will, I have never had a problem with it. just be sure to use large pebbles that they will be much less likely to casually let slide down their throat. first, I use about an inch to line entire bottom of the cage. Then, I slope up the back 1/2 another couple of inches, as you you would for turtle hatchlings. finally, pack moss around the sides and the back, leaving a little pond right in the middle- front of the cage that spend most of their nights soaking in, lots of moist moss to hide out in on all sides of them and some nice high ground behind them to climb out onto if they choose. (and they rarely do) As for lighting and heat, use good uv for good growth and stability and keep your temperatures as close to constant as you can. I don't use extra heat at all, a warm room seems to do just fine. these animals thrive on stable natural type conditions. use this method, and I'm sure you will have great future successes! I have over a dozen horners, and all fat and healthy as can be. good luck!

You have a dozen horned frogs, but how long have you had them on gravel?
And that is no simple set up, here's mine (I have 7 horned frogs 5 Cranwells' and 2 Cornuta) I use 3"-5" of bed-a-beast or Eco-eatrh and a shallow water dish (only about 1" deep) sunk into the substrate. I do use a heat source but they are low wattage bulbs (40-60 watts) and only have them on when I want to see them or when it's a little cooler in my room. odds are if you are feeling a bit of a chill through the day so is the frog and it needs to be a bit warmer (75-83 during the day 65-75 at night). These frogs are burrowers so do not use a heat pad, they burrow to get away from the heat and may burn themselves. I have also been keeping these frogs for 8 years now.

-----
http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

Anyone on this board or a number of other educated-people-filled boards will tell you that gravel is a horrid choice as a substrate for frogs. just ask me if you don't believe this; had a beloved american toad die when he swallowed some during feeding. Impaction. Even if you watch him closely while he is eating to guard against swallowing, what if some got stuck on his skin while shedding/swallowing it? Finally, these frogs burrow in moist soil in the wild and they also do it in captivity.
-----
*~Ginevive~*

Does the vet you work for know of any herp specialists in your vicinity that you might consult before giving up on this little guy? Not many generalists are set up for amphibian medicine, but you would know this if you work for one. There are so many different things that may present with similar symptoms that even if someone else had a similar experience, it might not be the same basic problem.

A herp vet may want to examine the eyes with a slit lamp to see just what is causing the problem there, and perhaps relate this to his apparent bone/neurological problems. Sometimes it takes more than one fecal to find parasites as they may be cyclical--or you just plain miss them on a single exam, so he may want to repeat this. The samples have to either be really fresh or immediately preserved to be reliable.

I realize this isn't a pat answer either, but hopefully it will give you another idea or two before giving up. You have obviously given the frog a lot of concern and care.

Sometimes in albino animals in particular, they may inherit some undesireable genes associated with the chromosomes that carry the albino gene that may interfere with metabolic functions. This isn't very practical information I realize, because there is really no way you are going to be able to prove this. It's just another thought.
-----
Patty
Lost River, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos