Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Many of you will smugly shrug this off and think "what an idiot, he doesn't deserve to keep a snake."

Those of you still reading, please offer your tips.

The story:
My ball python was taking a stroll last night. Although closely supervised, I made a mistake in judgment and suffered a momentary lapse of attention.

The result:
Ella, that'd be my beloved pet, found an invisible-to-a-human crevice between a bathroom vanity and a wall. As snakes do, she found this dark hole a perfect substitute to her hide and crawled inside.

The rescue attempts:
I tried to grab her back side to pull her out. Snakes are too strong and their bones too fragile for this approach. I had to let her go.

I set up an ambush. Heat source, her favorite hide 18" outside the hole, a thawed pre-killed mouse with entrails exposed, and a tormented keeper frozen perfectly still.

The results:
Over a period of hours, I watched perfectly motionless. She extruded herself, interested in heat source or mouse, three or four times. No more than 8 of her 30 inches came out. Not wanting to grab her fragile head and neck, I waited and hoped for her to come out for food or warmth. She retracted back into her newfound cavern each time.

Exhausted, I spread some talcum power outside the opening and went to bed. After sleeping 5 hours and working 14, I noticed no slither-prints in the powder.

Desperation sets in:
I've read the articles and success stories out there. Folks have found lost snakes. Snakes like their homes. They need warmth. They need food. They come out eventually.

None of this seems to matter. My snake is in a seriously risky situation and it's my fault. I feel horrible. I've thought of cutting out the entire vanity area, contractor fees and future home-buyers be damned. I'm worried there are crevices beyond that may lead her to spaces between floor and ceiling, spaces reserved for pipes, or other unseen portals to Narnia or worse.

It's winter. If she somehow finds her way through secret passageways to the outside, she'll die.

The appeal:
Help me, Ball-python-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope. My next step is to set up her entire enclosure outside this vanity area in hopes she'll be a homebody and crawl inside.

Aside from tearing apart my house with power tools, what might I do?

How have others navigated this situation besides researching options related to time travel or self-flagellation?
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

I had this happen one time. My brother had 3 balls in a cage together and his roommate left the cage unlocked. All three got out and went down an open drain pipe in the laundry room. When we grabbed the first one he bent over back into the whole and we had to let him go. We tried flushing them out with water. We had a mouse in a cage right out, a house, blanket and heater. He would stick his head out, but when we tried to get him he retracted. The other 2 were under him. We tried for off and on for about 2 months. We managed to get the other two out. After 4 months we assumed the third was dead. Six months later, the roommates girlfriend was cleaning his room and found the snake balled up in the clothes. He rushed the snake to me and I thought surely he was dead. He was extremely thin and dehydrated but he lived and has gained all of his weight. So your snake will come out when we is ready. I was once told if your snake gets out look around a water source. We found one under the fish tank.

I have submitted to the fact that the snake will have to make her own choices at this point. My Internet research indicates that they are more likely to come out for heat or humidity than anything else.

The powder shows she hasn't emerged yet. No sign of her since that first night, I suspect she's quite happy. On the bright side, maybe she'll find a mouse or two that may be sheltering in my house for the winter.

Several private replies have suggested some creative tactics using some significant temperature adjustments to get her out. I've also explored tactics to remove pieces of the vanity to get a better look.

Keeping up the hope!
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

>>
>>I set up an ambush. Heat source, her favorite hide 18" outside the hole, a thawed pre-killed mouse with entrails exposed, and a I've had this exact thing happen before, except the snake only got 3/4ths of the way behind the vanity. There is a trick to pulling them out - you don't. You hold on to the butt (the usual end that's sticking out) wait. The snake is not going to pull hard enough to break its back if all you are doing is holding the tail in place. Once you and the snake are in a sort of stand off, gently gently gently, start to wiggle it back out. Remember that the snake is tough, and as long as you are not bending the spine in any unusual directions, it can probably take whatever you dish out.
When my snake got out and behind the vanity, my Dad and I managed to get her out after about an hour's worth of working. It took a lot of patience!

If you're not noticing any movement in the talcum powder, then she hasn't come out through that hole, and if she is moving, it's on the other side of the vanity.
If you are really really worried, take apart that wall and see if she's still back there. Otherwise, spread talcum powder not only in front of the hole, but along the edges of the walls in the room. My bet is that unless you can see her when you look in the hole, she's not in that particular area anymore.

You're pretty much going to have to make a habit of checking in everything in that room and nearby rooms on a regular basis until you find her. Make extra sure to look in places you don't think she could fit, because that's where you'll find her. Leave her cage open and in a place that is snake-accessible, because it may be that she'll want familiar places to hide in the end.

You could also try the mouse and heat pad attempt again, but this time walk away and out of the room, and check back every 15 minutes to half hour. You were being perfectly motionless I am sure, but she saw your heat signature and figured some giant predator was just waiting there for her to eat that mouse.

Good luck! Let us know if you find her!

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Thanks for the suggestions. I suspect she knew I was there, too.

I like the suggestion of placing her enclosure nearby. I remember reading that sometime before and I think there's some potential to that approach.

The room is sealed off to the extent possible and I'm checking the powder for signs about 2-3 times a day (that's a 24-hr period; no sign of her at 3 AM either).

It's probably best to use an unscented powder for this sort of thing. In desperation, I used what I had: I think it's a scented Shower-to-Shower powder.

When I'm out today, I'm going to find something unscented in case that's acting as a deterrent. I don't know about you, but even my weak human nose can't stand walking down the soap aisle. I can't imagine that's giving her an incentive to come out of her new favorite hide.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

>>I like the suggestion of placing her enclosure nearby. I remember reading that sometime before and I think there's some potential to that approach.

I know some other species of reptiles will go into their enclosure when given the choice between an unfamiliar place and their familiar (and ideally set up) enclosure. I had one female that would get out constantly until I got her a new cage, and I was always finding her in my backpack or in my pillowcases. Never anywhere else, just those two places or en route to one of those two places. Creatures of habit, I guess.

>>It's probably best to use an unscented powder for this sort of thing. In desperation, I used what I had: I think it's a scented Shower-to-Shower powder.

Hmm, likely the smell is deterring her like you said. Let us know if using the unscented helps; I have always told people to just use flour.

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Cornstarch. Use Cornstarch. It won't harm the snake, but it will act exactly the same as the powder in determining if the snake crawls over it. It's also a very natural scent (not flowery or baby-powdery) so it shouldn't bother the snake.

I lost my king in the house back in October, haven't found the little bugger yet, but she's pretty tiny. Good luck!
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

If there's one thing I've learned through this experience, it's that I'm not alone. These critters are adept at finding all the obscure locations you don't want them to visit in your house.

Best wishes on finding your king!

I agree that cornstarch is a better approach. That's what I was intending to use, but my wife directed me to baking soda thinking it was corn starch. (Whole 'nother story: noun association mix-ups are common with both of us, but somehow we usually understand what the other one means).

Thanks again for your suggestions. This entire site is such a helpful resource.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

I had a snake escape one time. The room it was housed in was completely sealed off and had very few hiding places in it. I searched every square inch of that room and was positive she had somehow made it out. I started searching with a flashlight and night and I found her slithering along a wall in the same room she had escaped in. To this day I have yet to figure out where she could have been hiding.

My suggestion, search the entire house every few nights with a flashlight. Wait until the house has been quiet for a while so she is comfortable leaving. Good luck!
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Ryan Sherman
Scottsdale, Arizona
www.ThePaintedPython.com

snake made it down under the floorboards.

the talcum powder may smell strong and offensive to a ball python. try flour or something unscented instead. it is colder down there, so your snake will seek warmth and water.

i put a heat pad down there as i did not want her travelling even further into the bowels of the bldg. keep her near the entrance and she will venture out for water. i'm not sure food / prey items are the trick here. a dark hide / security, heat and some water is what she'll seek.

it took me two weeks to get her back but after i left for vacation and the house was perfectly still, she came out.

have patience, it'll happen.

I have removed the grotesque mouse from the scene.

Thanks for sharing your tips and your story. I am keeping my chin up and hoping she'll come through okay.

It's a bit startling, but what gets me is how distraught and helpless I feel. When you're so obsessive about caring for your pets (exception: my idiotic lapse of attention), it's a tad unsettling to trust they will take care of themselves.

Your and others' posts have really helped me. I'm sure the snake is a bit on the cold side, but probably rather content in her new space!
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

Many people have answered you already in what to do now and they seem to have this part covered.

One thing to note is that if you ever (hopefully not) get into the situation where the snake is half or most of the way even crawled into a tight spot like a hole in the wall, you can just grab the snakes back half and keep steady, constant pressure pulling the snake backwards. Not enough to break any bones or seperate any back vertabrae, but the snake will eventually tire out and come out (usually in one shot even)... They are - after all, just a muscle and the will get tired. It takes like 5 or even 10 minutes. This is sorta like the way a Starfish opens a clam, steady even pressure and the muscle of the clam eventually tires and releases.

Trust me, it works.

Thanks, I really wish I had held on. Live and learn.

Got some baking soda in place now. That shouldn't offend the nostrils anymore.

Thanks everyone, I'll keep y'all posted on the dramatic conclusion.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

I don't know what baking soda would do to a saliva-coated snake tongue. I still suggest cornstarch.

(*remembering the "volcanoes" of baking soda when I was growing up... just add water. )
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

Yeah, I couldn't find any in the house. When I was out running errands, my wife said we had some at home so I didn't get any.

Baking soda is an improvement over that other crap I was using, but I admit it ain't perfect.

On the up side, I've confirmed that there's no pipes she can get to. While there still might be odd crevices given how homes are slapped together since 1980, I'm reasonably confident she's coiled up in there. With the temps at 62-64 degrees F, she should be rethinking whether or not that new hide is worth it.

Her enclosure, her favorite hide, a water dish, and plenty of heat sources are just outside her last seen location.

I've left that room alone for hours on end, but there's still no tracks. Patience and corn starch are my best allies now.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

LOL, Holly that was vinegar in the volcanos , but I understand your concern.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Hehe... I hadn't done that since '87, so I really couldn't remember.
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

I've never been into such a situation nor do I have any experience in the matter of lost snakes but here's an idea: try extending the "safe hide" that she is currently in towards the outside of its entrance. This might trick the python into thinking that it can come out a little and still be comfortably hidden and safe. Make it a little cosier too by adding some heat in the outside shelter. But make sure that the shelter you add is an extension to the hole that she crawled into without any gaps in between. You never know, it just might work.
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1.0.0 Dumerils Boa
1.0.0 Royal Python

Great idea. With some continuity to her present location, the heat source would be a safe, appealing advantage.

It might take some bubblegum and stovepipe, but that seems more likely to succeed than my present methods.

About 2 feet outside her last seen location, there's a water dish, a heat lamp, and her favorite hide. If observations the other night were any indication, she's not willing to risk crossing the open spaces.

It's my hope she'll make this journey at night sometime in order to get warmth or water and I'll find her soaking up the warmth in her hide.

Your approach sounds like it may facilitate this transition for her, provided she's even located where I think she is.

It's harder than I thought to wait this out; all I want to do is see whether or not she's there or lost elsewhere in the guts of the house. I've seriously considered the brute-force approach, provided I could dismantle the vanity in a way that doesn't disrupt the snake, plumbing, tile grout, or cosmetics.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

Mouse glue traps,you can staple them to a board, put this far enough out from the crevice so the snake is compeltely out when it makes contact with the traps.Also put in place so the snake has to crawl across them.Now once you catch the snake pour vegetable oil on the snake and traps this breaks down the glue safely and releases the snake unharmed.Hope this Helps.Terry

OK -- so here's my 2 cents - leave her alone - all the enticement in front of that hole isn't going to be of any interest to her until she is ready to leave - all the "action" around the hole will keep her in there longer than necessary. If you put it all right out side her little hidy hole she'll likely warm herself and then retreat back into the hole.

Chill out and go on with your life - she'll come out when she is ready - she'll crawl right across the floor you can pick her up and put her back in her cage.

That's my 2 cents.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

I am sure you have all the advice you need, but I thought that I would add one thing. Remember through all of this, that it doesn't make you a bad keeper. Many yaers ago, I heard a comedian tell a joke, and instead of laughing, it made me think. Now, although not a direct quote, they are words I try to live by:

"I do not fail. I don't believe in it. I simply succeed at finding what does not work."
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

Mouse glue boards. Use the flat cardboard ones. Like the previous reply says, pour veggie oil all over the snake and board and work the snake loose with your fingertips. Work your fingers under the snake by rubbing the oil into the snake-to-glue seam.
I had 9 hatchling pinesnakes escape at the same time last year and was able to retrieve all of them in five days time using glue boards.
They work for lizards also.

It depends on how big she is though, the mouseboards may not work for a snake bigger than a juvie. I didn't see whether she was a hatchling or he'd had her for some time. If she's big enough, she could just drag the mouseboard around with her. I tried them with my snake, since she's small, but no luck there, they just got covered in dust and loose hair, no snake.
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

She was hatched in May 2007. She's roughly 30 inches long. Haven't weighed her in a while, but she's over 300 grams. More long and skinny at this point.

We'll see what happens.

She either isn't where I think she is or ain't coming out of that vanity area. No signs of activity to report after almost 72 hours.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

This sounds like a really good idea. I'm going to try this.

I'll keep y'all posted, even if it takes weeks or months to resolve the issue.

Thanks tons!
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)

here is my story

they call came back took me about 5 days or so to get the last one back. I just had to wait them out since trying to find 2 week old babies in a whole apartment was going to be hard.(mind you I did tear my whole place apart)

the first post
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1163225,1163225&key=2006

the update for finding them
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1167776,1167776&key=2006
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Misty Sprouse Ball Pythons

Thanks for sharing. Stories like these give me hope.
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Seren
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"The universe is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." (Chinese proverb)
Stormwraith Sidelines (blog including occasional tales about my ball python, Ella)