Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok I started to turn my temps down jan 31st. Turned it down another notch 3 days ago along with an hour less of heat at night. My question is after ovulation and all that you dont turn the heat back up right away. I heard some people leave their temps down for 4 months. When gravid dont they need some heat for the eggs?

Technically the breeding season is all but over, runs from November till February normally, BUT I understand they will breed any time if conditioned to do so. The trick, I would think, will be keeping the temp of the enclosure low enough to trick the snakes . I have no real experience in this so it might be best to wait for someone with more experience to chime in. Sorry.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

hey Mark, we start our cooling in early December, and bring it back up in March. that is one aspect of breeding, a seasonal temperature cycle.

but it is only one aspect. the females won't breed until they are ready, once follicles are 10mm-12mm or so. that is where an ultrasound machine or extremely sensitive palpating comes in.

if the follicles are too small, she won't breed, if they are too large with no pairing, you will have missed the window and they will return to being very small.

ten years ago, we paired up balls in December and left them together for 4 months, just hoping to get success.

when you know your follicle size, it only takes a few hours to breed for success : )

our last clutches will be dropping in late summer, so there is a WIDE window of breeding opportunity, even with a standard winter temp drop.

it is your challenge to get the pairing done when necessary, over that wide wide window : )

best of luck!
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thanks a bunch Robyn. I have the whole cooling system rigged to my whole room. 75 daytime about 72 at night with the heat tape off. Heat tape comes on at 9am and off at 7pm. Does that sound about right? Its been 19 days since I started cooling. I slowly dropped the temps to. Not just down all the way one day. Thanks for all the info. It looks like you keep your days pretty busy Robyn. Your always there to answer questions!

Isn't it possible for the female to retain the sperm. I say this because some have said they have missed the ovulation all together but still laid eggs.

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Brian n Chrissy

www.cb-reptiles.com/
"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

For the last couple of years I have not changed my temperatures at all. There is a normal seasonal variation in my snake room of about 3 degrees from summer to winter and about a 1 degree variation from day to night, but I have not cycled in the traditional sense. I don't have a huge collection, but I do raise about 50 clutches a year and "in my experience" temperature has not been the overriding factor in females cycling. I had females this past year that had 2cm follicles at the beginning of August and began breeding then. My first clutch of this season hatched out in January and I have a few more in the incubator that will hatch in the next couple weeks. Obviously, these girls cycled much earlier than most would even think to begin their breeding season and because I do not manipulate temps they did not cycle due to any traditional temperature cycling. I think that temp does influence cycling in females, but I also know from first hand experience that many females will begin cycling and successfully breed without any adjustments in temperature. I use ultrasound and breed females when their follicles approach 1.5 centimeters and then again in 4-5 weeks. In most cases this is all that is required. About 3-4 weeks after the second copulation I ultrasound the females again and if their follicles haven't matured to the point where it is certain that they will be ovulated (>3.5 cm) I will breed one more time. So far this year I am averaging less than 2.5 copulations per clutch and have bred only one female more than 3 times. Robyn from ProExotics is correct in that a significant percentage (not all) females require a copulation at around 1.25-1.75 cm or their follicles will not progress to vitillogenisis and will be absorbed. Ultrasound really allows you to see what is actually going on with individual females and takes alot of the guess work out of the equation. That being said, there is still no substitute for experience. Ultrasound just shortens the learning curve.
Good luck
Grant Whitmer

OK so where do you find these Ultrasound machines and how much do they run?
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Brian n Chrissy

www.cb-reptiles.com/
"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

Yes please fill me in on where to get these ultrasound machines!!!

ultrasound machines are listed on the classifieds here at ks.com, but you can also find them on ebay and through medical resellers.

i'm not a tech guy, so i couldn't tell you what to buy, i just found one that met the specs i was given years ago : )

even going with a basic model, they are probably $2500 , but for a breeder, that could be just one or two clutches of babies worth, and if you can increase your success by ten clutches, or a hundred, it would be worth it.

the old school solution would be to palpate for follicles and follicle growth, as shown in the Seward/Sutherland Ball python DVD.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles