Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Neighbors turning on neighbor..

Big brother tells you if you can smoke (government would never ban smoking cause they want the tax money...they are complicit in every death), using a cellphone in his or her own car is a no-no,"you eat fattening food?".."Why should I pay for your heart problems...they should make a law against what you eat", dicipline your own child with a tap on the butt and the 'Watchers' will report you...

Its just a matter of time...

Link

Here in the states you have the freedom to kill yourself however you want . Climb a mountain without ropes. Smoke 2 packs a day. Eat junk food . Just don't bother someone else while your doing it . Freedom is expensive

The question is how did his neighbors know he had so many snakes and that they were venemous? Snakes are nice, quiet, clean pets that are hardly noticeable if you take good care of them. With 50 of them, I would imagine that guy either breeds his own rodents or buys frozen, so it's not like he's constantly coming home wheeling boxes of live rodents in.
He's keeping them legally, since he has a permit, and animal control said they'd never received a complaint about the snakes.

So what happened that city council thought they needed to take action? City council really does have better things to do than go after a single man with a large collection of reptiles, venemous or not.

It doesn't sound to me like it's the government trying to take over, it sounds to me like venemous boy screwed up and scared someone, and that someone made a stink.
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

here, in illinois, just like many other states, a smoking ban was introduced starting on jan 1. the law bans smoking in all public places, bars and casinos included. however, these smoking bans are not a new idea. another head of state banned smoking in his country, for the good of his people, around eighty years ago. his name.
ADOLPH HITLER.
scary.

I don't smoke. I think the ban on smoking in public places here in California is great. I don't care who smokes in their own home, but I do not want to have to smell smoke while eating a meal in a restaurant.

Just because Adolf Hitler had an idea doesn't automatically make it awful. He was a vegetarian, too. Does that make vegetarians bad people?

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Jen,

You should be able to go to a restaurant that caters to non-smokers, just the same as a smoker should be able to go to a bar/restaurant that caters to them... It should be the restaurateurs, the person who put his/her butt on the line to start the busisness, decision what they want to do in their own place. This is the issue here - dont you see... It should NOT be the governments decision how that business runs itself.

Its funny how, if cigarettes are so bad and kill so many people (which I believe they do), why doesnt the govrnment just go ahead and make them illegal? The answer is disgustingly simple...MONEY.. The government wants the tax dollars, so it guises it assault on the cigarette companys and pits one group of Americans against another, just for the pleasure of being able to better control (and thereby better tax) a totally legal commodity. Uncle Sam is complicit in every tobacco related death.

I believe something similar happened with alcohol. Remember, back in the 20s, there was this thing called Prohibition? Wives and mothers all over the country succeeded in having alcohol banned.
Alcohol affects your actual state of mind. It is a drug, a depressant, and it too results in deaths every year, not only from the effects it has on your body but in vehicle deaths and other accidents. Domestic violence can often be attributed to alcohol, as well as some of the stupidest things people can ever remember (or not remember) doing.
But for all those negative effects, people kept drinking alcohol anyway. Speak-easy's sprung up all across the country, and alcohol became even more popular. After a while it became obvious that prohibiting the substance was not doing anything to stop people from indulging. So, alcohol became legal again.

People like killing themselves. It's your choice, isn't it, to smoke? Well, it's my choice that in a public place, I don't want to breathe your smoke.
Say that in a hypothetical world, businesses could choose to be smoking or non smoking. What happens to the non smoker if the majority of businesses choose smoking? What happens when I can't go out to Applebee's because it's a smoking restaurant and I value my lungs? Non smoking and smoking sections are a joke - air mixes, you can't segregate air space.
My freedom to choose a restaurant is restricted for the sake of a smoker's freedom to kill themselves.

A smoker can still eat at a non smoking restaurant, they just have to go to the designated smoking area outside to have a smoke afterwards. Their freedom to choose a restaurant is not restricted at all - just their freedom to inflict smoke on other restaurant diners.

I think banning smoking in the restaurant is the lesser of the two evils there.

The tax on smoking is a luxury tax. You don't have to smoke, so if you didn't smoke, you wouldn't pay the tax. If raising the tax on cigarettes helps decrease that ridiculously large deficit the government operates in, I'm all for it.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

I prefer a bold free place. One in which success may not be guaranteed, but bold risk taking is sometimes rewarded and always celebrated. A place in which you are free to live on the edge of the eagles wing, but need you need to be mindful that someone may not be there to pick you up if you fall.

I do not prefer a world in which government protects you from yourself, a place in which one group is pitted against the next, tells on each other and resents one another.

You can use whatever euphemisms make you feel better about things, but the bottom line is still the same.

And by the way Jen, if you are SO AFRAID of a world in which Apple Bee's might be off-limits to you, due to its smoking policy, I say start your own restaurant that caters to people such as yourself and show Apple Bees the error of it ways by putting them out of business. That would involve bold risk taking however?

Just a thought.

>>I prefer a bold free place. One in which success may not be guaranteed, but bold risk taking is sometimes rewarded and always celebrated. A place in which you are free to live on the edge of the eagles wing, but need you need to be mindful that someone may not be there to pick you up if you fall.

Go to Japan. All you need to do to start a business there is file a single paper.
There is still no one to pick you up if you fall. Aren't you taking a risk with the ball python market? Who's going to pick you up if you fail at it? Nobody.

>>I do not prefer a world in which government protects you from yourself, a place in which one group is pitted against the next, tells on each other and resents one another.

Have you seen the general public? People are like that. A lot of problems would probably be solved if we just took the safety labels off of everything, but we can't do that because it's not fair to the person too stupid to realize using a blowdryer while in the bathtub is a bad idea. Look at us here arguing over someone's right to smoke in a restaurant. Do you resent me for being glad that the government has made it possible for me to enjoy a smoke free environment in every building I walk into?

>>And by the way Jen, if you are SO AFRAID of a world in which Apple Bee's might be off-limits to you, due to its smoking policy, I say start your own restaurant that caters to people such as yourself and show Apple Bees the error of it ways by putting them out of business. That would involve bold risk taking however?

Bold risk taking and a desire to work with people and their food. I'd rather get my degree and work with animals! Being pooped on is preferable to the restaurant industry. Eugh!

Why don't you fight the government ban if it bothers you so much? "That would involve bold risk taking however?"

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Smoking is not the point... I hate smoking, but I do NOT have the right to tell other people (including the business owner) how to live or what to do.

First they Came

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

"I know you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant."
~Robert McCloskey, State Department spokesman

Jews and smokers are like oranges and apples. Religion and cancer causing habits are not the same thing, although you have my sympathies if you have difficulties distinguishing the two.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Yes, everyone who doesn't want to choke to death should start their own buisness. Rights have to be balenced. If you aren't hurting someone (other than yourself), cool. On the other hand if you can smoke inside than my right to breath is deminished.
-----
I eat human infants. They, like everything else, taste like chicken. What?

YES
-----
I eat human infants. They, like everything else, taste like chicken. What?

had a post that didn't result in this? I'd vote to ban him but it's so d@^^n amusing.
-----
I eat human infants. They, like everything else, taste like chicken. What?

I'm sure he does.

Let's refrain from attacking the man himself - we're doing so good at arguing ideas!

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

I dont smoke but see nothing wrong with a smoke area why would that bother anyone .
As long as I dont have to inhale someones smoke why would I care what they do.

Put in proper smoke "filters" and no problem . If a persons smoke doesnt come my way than great they can smoke all they want its not my concern

with that being said, I am a smoker and I believe as far as the smoking ban goes, if I decide to kill myself slowly thats my problem and no one else should have to deal with it! for all those smokers that have a problem with it, put a giant pinch in your lip and spit, LOL!

Posted by: ameratsnake at Fri Mar 21 22:36:26 2008 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

with that being said, I am a smoker and I believe as far as the smoking ban goes, if I decide to kill myself slowly thats my problem and no one else should have to deal with it! for all those smokers that have a problem with it, put a giant pinch in your lip and spit, LOL!
--------
I agree if you want to smoke thats fine its your business it isnt hurting anyone UNLESS they have to inhale that smoke than its their business to .

most restaurants dont open windows - so you literally sit encased in some other person's smoke / preferential habit. without a doubt, it effects everyone in that restuarant if just one individual lights up.

when i crack a beer, i dont walk around making others drink it.

should be chosen by the restaurant or establishment.

np
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

I love the ban too - I don't want to have to inhale your second hand smoke - I don't want my kids to have to inhale it. And how freaking pathetic are you that you cannot make it through a meal without lighting up anyway! Of course then they just crowd around the door smoking - so you have to walk through it anyway.
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons

OK, tried to behave myself , but comin' from a guy that smoked for 43 years and who is now a non smoker, only three months now but I'm workin' on it, I think it's an individuals right to smoke or not. I also think it should be made law for people to learn tolerance of others that don't feel the way you do personally about anything. Yes, they've proved second hand smoke is dangerous, but people who don't smoke have the option to avoid places where people do smoke. It's about MAKING choices NOT making everybody else do things the way YOU want it done. I'm gettin' off the soap box now.

Quig
-----
Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

It is your right to smoke or not. The problem is that it is also my right to not breathe in second hand smoke. There's lots of places you can still smoke, such as in your home and in your car, and almost anywhere outside.

Another problem is the inconsiderate nature of many people who do smoke outside of places. I can't tell you how many times someone has puffed out a huge puff of smoke right as I walk by to go into the mall or a restaurant.
We cover our mouths to sneeze, right? Turn away to cough? Why is it so hard for smokers to not blow their smoke towards the path where people are walking? It's not like there are other ways to go into a restaurant - there's the front door and that's it. I don't mind people smoking outside the restaurant...but I don't get why there's always that person sitting two feet from the door, blowing their smoke at everyone walking by!
It's that person sitting by the door that ruins it for all smokers, even the considerate ones.

Good luck with the quitting! I can't even imagine how hard it must be after so long. Congratulations on making it three months!

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Maybe they should make smoking illegal just outside the restaurant as well - its a starting place..?

Jen you seem like a nice person, someday you may realize what I am trying to say. It isnt about one or another issue such as smoking or seatbelt laws, etc..., it is about the greater issue of personal freedoms we want to keep.

When you get older and maybe try and open your own Veterinary practice and want to run it the way you choose. Why? Because you got every penny you have and a bunch you had to borrow sunk into this thing you love. God forbid you are on the wrong side of some regulation written by some little intellectual elitest pinhead in the city, state or fedral government that seeks to tell you how you can do things in your own place. On top of this you will then have to fork over 50% plus of everything you take in, and have every regulation under the sun seeking to close you down (or better yet fine you) for the littlist thing.

I own a business and it is UNBELIEVABLE what risk takers are made to put up with..

The restaurant owner should not be made to coddle to you or any other interest unless he chooses too, you should go some place else to spend your money.

>>Maybe they should make smoking illegal just outside the restaurant as well - its a starting place..?

It's forbidden within 25 feet of any doors at my college. I love it.

>>Jen you seem like a nice person, someday you may realize what I am trying to say. It isnt about one or another issue such as smoking or seatbelt laws, etc..., it is about the greater issue of personal freedoms we want to keep.

I do understand what you're saying, and I actually agree that the government does need to stop meddling in some things so much. I just don't believe that there is a consipiracy to control every aspect of what we do.

Both of my parents also run and operate their own small-time business, and I work for a company that started out small and has become incredibly successful. The taxes I am sure they hate, but they are succeeding anyway.

We as a culture are dependent on our government to provide for us. Social Security, welfare, health care... Lots of people get very upset if you threaten to take those things away.
It's people, not the government, that are the problem. If people didn't lean on the government so much, the need for those expensive programs wouldn't exist.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Schools, government offices, grocery stores, supply stores and other places that provide neccessities are not luxuries. I think smoking should be banned in those places. A restaraunt, bar, casino, etc. are total luxuries. Not going to one is not going to harm anyone. I am on the fence with those. I definately do not see any reason to consider the nonsmoking public's rights anymore than the smokers rights in those cases.

I do however see a reason for concern for the workers rights in those places. A job is not a luxury so there needs to be consideration for all potential workers. That said, many jobs are inherently dangerous and you can choose to accept the dangers that come with the job when you get hired, as long as the employer informs you of them. So I am undecided but leaning towards letting the bussiness owner decide.

Congratulations, Quig, on quitting smoking! That's great. From experience, let me say that it's the same as giving up drugs & alcohol, all it takes is to give into the temptation just one time and here we go again. Ahh, but you can do it, you'll make it.

After smoking for 15 yrs I quit for 2 1/2 yrs but started back, like an idiot. I just haven't made up my mind to quit again. After giving up alcohol, drugs, and even sex (I've got 2 kids & I figured out what caused 'em. Ha! Ha! j/k) I use cigs as a crutch. Shame on me.

Anyhow, I decided to post here because I know you won't take what I'm about to say personally and I didn't want anyone to think I was jumping on them or anything.

I've somewhat followed the Deltona venomous snake case since it began & from what I can tell someone with authority in Deltona found the man's name on public records of licensed keepers of dangerous animals (venomous license, in this case). Out of ignorant fear, I believe, they then tried to satisfy their fear by eliminating the reason for their fear. Get rid of the venomous snakes, one way or another. Pushing their ideas and agenda on anyone/everyone.

I don't buy into conspiracy theories. I do not think that the US government, or some members thereof, are set out to extinguish all or most personal freedom/rights merely in the name of control. Most laws are made with good intentions, albeit how misguided they may be.

However, it is our responsibility as citizens to ensure our personal rights are not infringed upon, even in the name of good intention. I'm sorry folks, but there is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to not wear my seatbelt if I'm alone in my car. It will have no affect on anyone else's life but mine.

I can see both sides of the argument of living next to a venomous keeper, especially since I have a 13 yr old daughter & a 9 yr old son. I am also a venomous keeper.

What happens when we only look at things from our own, personal perspective? As a venomous keeper I think, "Heck, I keep mine well secured, no escapes to date. It's not that hard to do and I know of no injury or death from an escaped venomous snake."

A person/parent that isn't a snake enthusiast or knowledgeable in the records of venomous snake keeping (bites, deaths, injuries, escapes, etc...) might think, "Those things can kill someone. What if one gets loose & crawls into my backyard where my kids play?"

Even though statistics show that it's the keepers that are getting bit, and very, very few result in death, and there's no records that I'm aware of where someone else was bitten by an escaped venomous snake, this person/parent has a right to be concerned.

As a venomous keeper & parent I think, "Well, I know nothing about this person's capabilities or experience, they may not be near as careful as me or the average keeper." For the most part, what I don't know won't hurt me. For the most part, I said. There is a fine line, the questios are "where to draw the line & who should be the one to draw it". It's not an easy task, no matter what side of the fence you're on.

But the fact is we stand a better chance of hitting the lottery or getting struck by lightning than being attacked by an escaped venomous snake or tiger. Shall the government ban lightning? Look at how many innocent lives are claimed each year by automobile "accidents". Why aren't they banning automobiles? It is a legitmate question; one person likes to drive but another may not, and one person likes to keep venomous snakes but another may not. It's a choice that we should have.

The story Tosha spoke of about her neighbor trying to get them in trouble with their snakes is a prime example of how some people play upon other people's fear to get their way. Take a look at the Federal Wildlife Service's recent inquiry of the larger pythons, anacondas, etc. They're asking the public for all kinds of information but say there's no agenda or plan to enact a federal ban on them. Well, why do they want to know what my state and local laws are concerning these snakes? Their inquiry may be somewhat innocent, in general, but history shows that someone will use that information to drive their agenda. Don't forget that all responses will be posted to the open public. Any bets?

For the most part I believe that the US government means well, but I don't think it's their place to tell privately owned businesses (or individuals) what they can or can't do, to an extent of course. The smoking ban everyone's cheering or crying about. I am a smoker, unfortunately. However, I always take into consideration other people's rights. But not everyone does, obviously & unfortunately. I don't smoke in restaraunts, mostly because I don't like to smell smoke when I'm eating. I'm their to eat, not smoke. I don't like to eat smoke. Ha! However, I believe it's an owner's right to cater to smokers or non-smokers, just as it's my right to support a smoking or non-smoking business.

Your rights stop where mine begin, and my rights stop where yours begins.

If any of you think that government knows best, how about asking those in the UK and EU just how great their government health care is. Governement may mean well but they make a mell of a hess of just about everything they put their hands on. Can you say "Social Security"? And, no, it ain't split among party lines, either. They're both at fault, for one thing or another. In other words, ain't none of us perfect.

All I ask is for everyone to try to put theirself in other people's place before casting judgment or making hasty decisions. And for Pete's sake, you fellow smokers, don't be hangin' out right by the doors of establishments blowin' your smoke in everyone's breathing space. You don't want to smell their flatulence. Ha! Now there's a good secret weapon for you non-smokers. Just pass gas right before you come upon a smoker at an entrance. Hahaha!!!

Ya'll carry on, and have a great day!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

This was an awesome response, well thought out and well written.

Your points about things like wearing a seatbelt in your own car are valid; however, something such as smoking in a restaurant or bar (while you may be considerate enough not to do so, other people aren't) affects me and my life - it puts my health at risk. Thus, it affects my freedom to choose a healthy lifestyle. Your freedom stops where mine begins, right?

As far as bicycle helmets and seatbelts... well, yeah, those are areas that didn't necessarily need to get meddled with but they were anyway.

Today's society kind of demands governmental babysitting, though. I don't know what it is, but I swear people are just getting dumber and dumber.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Thanks for the compliment, Jenny.

> > > "Today's society kind of demands governmental babysitting, though. I don't know what it is, but I swear people are just getting dumber and dumber."

Ha! Ha! That's funny, but it's true. We have more people with higher education but where's the evidence sometimes? People don't think these days. Could it be because government tries to do most of our thinking for us to where we don't have to (Government babysitting)? Or could it be because today's society is taught what to think instead of thinking for their self? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Ahh, but all-in-all, this isn't a perfect nation but I am still very proud of it. And today's not the first time in my life that I ever have been. (Sorry, couldn't resist that one. hahaha!)

Take care!
Mike
(HH)
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Posted by: ginebig at Tue Feb 19 14:41:07 2008 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

OK, tried to behave myself , but comin' from a guy that smoked for 43 years and who is now a non smoker, only three months now but I'm workin' on it, I think it's an individuals right to smoke or not. I also think it should be made law for people to learn tolerance of others that don't feel the way you do personally about anything. Yes, they've proved second hand smoke is dangerous, but people who don't smoke have the option to avoid places where people do smoke. It's about MAKING choices NOT making everybody else do things the way YOU want it done. I'm gettin' off the soap box now.

Quig
-----

Good luck my dad smoked for yrs gave it up and 10 yrs later never smoked again think the first 9.5 yrs are the hardest lol kidding.
If you ever decide to smoke in a restaurant and completely disregard the smoking ban KNOWING nothing will be done and Dept of Health is nowhere EVER to be found than come to Miami.

Vegetarians are in fact very bad people, very Hitler like. Just kidding, I am in fact a vegetarian too, although I do make an occational exception to eat dairy products....and fish, oh and chicken and steak, and venison and wild turkey and a few other meats.
That kind of action does not encourage people to be legal and get permits, and be forcoming, it encourages lawlessness and deceit.
I smell smoke, is something burning? oh wait never mind, it's just FEAR!
-----
Upon catching her breath she took a deep gulp and said,"you certainly have been blessed with an impressive set of regius's"
1.0 pastel Python regius
0.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
0.2 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
1.4 Kinosternon baurii
1.0 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.1 Ambystoma tigrinum
1.1 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.1 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
1.1 heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus

My mom's a vegetarian!

It encourages lawlessness and deceit with people who shouldn't have the things that need a permit anyway. I have never seen a person with an extensive amount of knowledge about an animal and an equal amount of respect for it neglect to get the permit.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Posted by: chonjoepython at Tue Feb 19 12:26:35 2008 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

here, in illinois, just like many other states, a smoking ban was introduced starting on jan 1. the law bans smoking in all public places, bars and casinos included. however, these smoking bans are not a new idea. another head of state banned smoking in his country, for the good of his people, around eighty years ago. his name.
ADOLPH HITLER.
scary.

No whats scary is that for decades there wasnt a smoking ban. Its not a secret that second hand smoke causes cancer . Why should non smokers be subjected to that nasty vice?

If they have a seperate area for smokers thats GREAT but no one should be subjected to breathing that in if they dont want to.

If Hitler banned smoking it was the only correct thing he ever did and just because he banned smoking doesnt mean its wrong to ban it.
I subscribe to smoking all you want aslong as I dont have to breath it . Someones vice shouldnt impose on my life .

Well, I think the snake situation is completely different that big bro telling us we can or cannot smoke in public. They say we can keep venemous in some places with the right permits. Fine. We dont tae our snakes to the bars, casinos, or public and put others at risk. When someone is smoking in public, they are infringing on my space as well. A non-smoker has the right to breath clean air in public. Now if you want to let the non-smokers keep the smokers in cages and away from the public then go ahead. You guys are comparing apples and oranges. I just see both points. And yes, I keep and breed venemous herps and do think that people that smoke have the right to smoke. Just dont breath or pollute the air I am breathing and I wont have to kill anyone. Nuff said.

If you dont seem concerned with someone who is totally minding his own business (the article specifically says there were NO complaints), and this person is turned in by his neighbors and then his government is trying to tell him what he can or cant do in the privacy of his own home..if this doesnt bother your sense of freedom at some innate level, then it is worse than I thought.

If you do not see the nexus between this, and the slow evaporation of freedom, where government has already started to tell the free men and women of this country what they are able to say, followed by what they can do...it cant be far off where you are told what to think, feel, what you can write about and to whom you can speak.

It is a very sad thing Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Washington..they weep for the freedoms we have so willingly squandered in the name of political correctness. We are the most socially controlled generation since Concord Bridge, make no mistake about it.

No complaints to animal control, but if the city council is getting involved, obviously someone somewhere complained. The article does not state why the council is getting involved, just says that they are. There is not enough information to say we are losing freedoms or not.
Neighbors are nosy. It's a fact of life. The neighbors being nosy are to blame, not the government for listening to the complaints.

>>It is a very sad thing Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Washington..they weep for the freedoms we have so willingly squandered in the name of political correctness.

They're dead. Dead men don't weep.
My freedoms are just fine. I go to school, I work, I have a boyfriend I love and I keep animals I enjoy keeping. I live a good life. There's no big brother breathing over my neck. I have a grumpy chemistry professor and I dodge the parking ticket man every day at work, but I doubt they are part of a conspiracy to take away my freedom to get a coffee when I want one.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

It says he was on "A LIST".. Doesnt that seem a little bit odd to you, that the city council is keeping lists of people who are breaking no laws? This is exactly why the people who own firearms are so much against registering their weapons.. I do not blame them one bit when you see things like this travesty in Florida.

"They found Radenberg's name on a list of state permit holders."

How else are they supposed to keep track of permit holders?

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

That really did alot of good - huh? Open your eyes up please. You get your latte every morning and avoid a seatbelt ticket or five dollar parking ticket, so you are ahead of the game?

Come on now...

Wait wait, what happened to the horribleness of that list the man was on?

My point was that I have the freedoms to go about my life. I live better than 90% of the rest of the world, topped by places like England and Japan. Look at governments everywhere else - we really aren't that restricted.

What's so bad about your life that is a direct result of the government?

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

They didn't. read this quote from the article:

>>The question is how did his neighbors know he had so many snakes and that they were venemous? Snakes are nice, quiet, clean pets that are hardly noticeable if you take good care of them. With 50 of them, I would imagine that guy either breeds his own rodents or buys frozen, so it's not like he's constantly coming home wheeling boxes of live rodents in.
>>He's keeping them legally, since he has a permit, and animal control said they'd never received a complaint about the snakes.
>>
>>So what happened that city council thought they needed to take action? City council really does have better things to do than go after a single man with a large collection of reptiles, venemous or not.
>>
>>It doesn't sound to me like it's the government trying to take over, it sounds to me like venemous boy screwed up and scared someone, and that someone made a stink.
>>-----
-----
AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

Animal control did not. City council did. I doubt this guy walked up to city council and told them "Hey, I have 50 venemous snakes!".

So why did someone tell city council, and not animal control?

Something else was going on that is not discussed in the article.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

All it takes is for one person to know and be unhappy about it.
It could be a friend of the guy said something about it too loud in public, it could be a neighbor...it could be anyone that ever went to his place or that he talked to about it or anyone any of those people talked to about it.

keep in mind city hall does things like this when the PEOPLE come in and complain...
I witnessed a similar event about 10 years ago or so with the big cat foundation.

People are filled with fear and then go screaming to the city council to try and get them kicked out of town or have the animals removed because they don't like it in THEIR town. Part of having city council meetings is so that people can go and bring up issues they are concerned about in their city. So after its brought up in a meeting if the council decides the person has a legit complaint they are going to pursue it or at least check it out.

Think about it this way...
If a person came in and said "hey look this other person has poisonous snakes" and then city DIDN'T check it out. Then it turns out the guy didn't have proper permits and just let them roam around his back yard on the honor system that they won't run away and kill the neighbors kid...
Imagine how happy the people would be when someone DID get hurt. They would ALL scream "WE WARNED YOU AND YOU DID NOTHING!!" and then the lawsuits would start.

I wouldn't really want to live next to him either but at the same time just because you don't live next to someone with them doesn't meant they aren't right outside your door anyway its not like we don't have native poisonous snakes in Florida.

a dvd movie.

The guy that made that gives no evidence and makes wild claims about the moons of Jupiter warming up. He is a tool of the people that his dvd seeks to expose. They chose him because he is stupid enough to discredit himself in his own documentary. "They" are working to dominate but don't go sniffing out false trails.
-----
I eat human infants. They, like everything else, taste like chicken. What?

'bout a year ago my hubby got in a row with the neighbor over their dog pooping where our kids played and them not picking it up. Anyway - said neighbor called animal control because we had "a ton of snakes we were selling out of our house" - yes their kids had been at our house playing with ours - yes they knew about the snakes - yes that's all it took to get the "authorities" at our house. Lucky for me - I have a permit with the city to have up to 100 snakes - I also have a business permit to sell those snakes. I played by the rules and when push came to shove I won. No I do not feel my rights were violated - tho I will admit that it did spook me thinking they were going to make me get rid of them - but in the end by following the appropriate procedures got my name on that list and there was no need for further consideration. And no one felt a need to run out and pass a new law outlawing my snakes.

But to be honest - as a mother I wouldn't want to live next to a person with 50 venomous snakes. As a herper I really don't want to live next to someone with 50 venomous snakes. You can preach to me all you want about rights - but a right to bear arms is in the constitution a right to keep snakes is not. If your "pet" can get out and kill my kid - I don't care if it's a snake or a dog I don't want to live near it and I'm sure as hell not going to trust you to come knock on my door to tell me your viper has gone missing and might be sunning itself on my patio.

Other than that - I agree with everything Jenny has said.
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons

Tosha,

I am glad to see all is well that ends well. You didnt have your personal property confiscated by the local athorities because your paperwork and armband was in order, and even though your neighbors snitched on you, you are all set unless they pass additional laws, which couldnt possibly happen in California. Other than that, I agree with Jen too..

Good luck and God Bless you daughter. LOL!

Then the city council wanting to pass a law requiring a warning sign to be put up if someone has such and so many venemous snakes is a good thing!

I agree - while I probably wouldn't mind someone legally keeping 50 venemous snakes next door (if they went the legal route to keep them, I am willing to believe they can keep them contained), I would at least like to know they're there. Ball pythons are one thing... rattlesnakes are another.

Sorry about the issue with your neighbor. What jerks!

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

>>'bout a year ago my hubby got in a row with the neighbor over their dog pooping where our kids played and them not picking it up. Anyway - said neighbor called animal control because we had "a ton of snakes we were selling out of our house" - yes their kids had been at our house playing with ours - yes they knew about the snakes - yes that's all it took to get the "authorities" at our house. Lucky for me - I have a permit with the city to have up to 100 snakes - I also have a business permit to sell those snakes. I played by the rules and when push came to shove I won. No I do not feel my rights were violated - tho I will admit that it did spook me thinking they were going to make me get rid of them - but in the end by following the appropriate procedures got my name on that list and there was no need for further consideration. And no one felt a need to run out and pass a new law outlawing my snakes.

Not necessary. All they have to do is refuse to renew your permit. No "cause of action" required. No new law required. As not renewing a permit is not an action it is an inaction.

Your permit seems safe enough, until you piss off the WRONG city employee, then the house of cards tumbles down.
-----
AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

REALLY upsetting that they found his name on the legal permit holder list and STILL tried to go after him.

A strong reminder to always operate within whatever laws are in place where you live. Cover your buns, whatever you do.

besides maybee the person that is only directly knowingly putting themself in harms way, then it shouldn't be illegal for the most part. I mean if I have a permit, then leave me alone. Whats next consentration camps and sports bans c'mon, get real! this is america, right?

I disagree using cell phone while driving should be banned . Pull over and use it if you must.

Dont agree with me come to Miami and you will. The most reckless dangerous drivers I have ever seen and I lived in NY for 30 yrs.

No one has the right to put anyone in danger and MANY people can not drive and chit chatting on cell phone .

Now add arguing with someone on the other end and you have a typical aggressive ,dangerous, not aware whats around them cell phone Miami driver .

I intend to vote against every incumbent here till they pass the cell phone law and many here agree .
Just because you can drive and talk on cell phone doesnt mean others can again come to Miami .
I will take you on highway or ANY street during rush hour and you will gasp at Suvs,trucks,cars going right through lights due to not paying attention while on cell phone or weaving in and out of traffic 20 mph plus ABOVE speed limit while screaming on cell phone .

Its an epidemic here BAN CELL PHONES while driving like they did in NY . NO ONE has the right to put anyone in danger .