Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have a pic of Elaphe slowinskii or is that the kisatchie (sp?) corn that people posted pics of a few weeks back.

Its too bad they changed Elaphe....it kinda rolls of the tongue better than the other new name. As if corns weren't confusing enough with all the new morphs!!
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carl3
www.members.aol.com/northeastsnakes

Hey Carl,
From the previous discussions on this and the "other" forum I would say that the Slowinski is the Kisatchie.
There are beautiful snakes.
Don has pictures on South Mountain.
I wish I could remember who it was that posted all the great pics a couple of weeks ago.
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Remember, my posts are MY opinion only.
Jimmy (draybar)

You are correct. Elaphe guttata slowenskii is the same as the Kisatchie cornsnake.

KJ

I really like those Kisatchies. You wouldn't have a pair for sale would you?

>>I really like those Kisatchies. You wouldn't have a pair for sale would you?

Sorry that it took so long for me to reply to this, but I've been out of town. I'm out for this year. I'd suggest contacting Don Soderberg.

KJ

Kisatchie corns are, indeed, Elaphe guttata slowenski. They were proposed elevated to species status in a "scientific" paper, but the change is entirely unwarrented. At most, subspecific status should be given. Most taxonomists consider kisatchies a colorful integrade between the eastern E.g.guttata and the western E.g.emoryi. Where you at on this one, KJ? lol
-Cole

>>Kisatchie corns are, indeed, Elaphe guttata slowenski. They were proposed elevated to species status in a "scientific" paper, but the change is entirely unwarrented. At most, subspecific status should be given. Most taxonomists consider kisatchies a colorful integrade between the eastern E.g.guttata and the western E.g.emoryi. Where you at on this one, KJ? lol
>>-Cole

Cole,

They were, but that is bunk. Burbrink's own data proves that they shouldn't be their own species, but he is too bad of a scientisdt to know it or to care that he is lying. Hei's a name hunter and not after the truth like scientists should be. He refused to work with others on this same study. Do I need to go on further?

Most people do consider them to be the result of HISTORIC intergrades between E. guttata and E. emoryi. They are more guttata-like than emoryi-like, too. New species? Impossible thanks to the MINOR amount of gene flow going on. They aren't that different from corns, either. However, they have been MOSTLY (but not completely) isolated from corns and emorys for centuries. They are different. A most, they should be a separate subspecies. Research going on in Texas (many of my animals have been bleed for them and I've donated a few roadkills, etc.) is saying that, too. They will MOST likely remove it as a species and call it a subspecies of the cornsnake (e.g., Elaphe guttata slowenskii). I agree more with their explanation, so I've started calling it by that name. It makes more biological and ecological sense to me.

Sounds like you and I agree, doesn't it? Sorry I got on that soapbox...lol.
KJ

You climb up on that soapbox! I think you and I have discussed this before, but do you consider emoryi and guttata to be fully seperate species (E.emoryi and E.guttata), or subspecies of E.guttata? Other than coloration and saddle characteristics, the two do not seem that far removed from eachother, save habitat. How's life down south? It's finally cooled off up here in MT.
-Cole

I'm borderline on that call. I agree with the division, but I also think that these two are borderline species/subspecies. The guttata-complex doesn't fit into nice little black-and-white taxonomic brackets like we want them to be.

KJ

Hey look...no multiple posts!! Anyway, that's kind of how I look at it too, and what I figured you'd say. Reminds me a lot of the Lampropeltis triangulum situation in the SE US. You and I do think a lot a like.
-Cole

You climb up on that soapbox! I think you and I have discussed this before, but do you consider emoryi and guttata to be fully seperate species (E.emoryi and E.guttata), or subspecies of E.guttata? Other than coloration and saddle characteristics, the two do not seem that far removed from eachother, save habitat. How's life down south? It's finally cooled off up here in MT.
-Cole

np

You climb up on that soapbox, KJ! I'm sure we've discussed this before, but do you currently consider emoryi and guttata fully seperate species or two subspecies of E. guttata? What do you think about the effort of "the unnamed", lol, to subdivide emoryi? I realize that intermontana is relatively distinct and is isolated from other emoryi populations, but what about meahllmorum?
-cole

Sorry for the waste of space... my machine said that Kingsnake wasn't responding so I cleared the screen and rewrote the message only to find that the original had been posted too, twice! Some day I'll figure it out =)
-Cole