Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a question. A long time ago a friend of mine who lived in a different state gave me my very first snake...a black rat. At the time he was unaware that they were considered an endangered species in MA, & so was i until i went online to research black rats & stumbled across something saying they are illegal to own cuz people around here have been mistaking them for baby copperheads & lopping their heads off with shovels for years. I love my snake dearly but i'm afraid of losing her! And everyone else who has met her loves her too!

So my question is what do i do? Get a license for her or play dumb? If i choose to apply for a license could someone still seize my pet cuz i had her before the license instead of the other way around? And if i dont get one could i end up getting into trouble if i wanted to bring her to visit kids at schools or do birthday parties? She's much too sweet of a girl to be left at home while all my other snakes go places! Any advice you could offer would be a great help. Thank you!

Well I do not know how the state of M.A. is. But here in N.Y.C. they are not on a witch hunt. If no one complains then you are ok. However I am the V.P. of a Herp society and we applied for an educational permit and they gave us one. I think if you called you local DEC or whatever you guys call it, and explain you would like to use the snake for educational purposes and could provide them with a reciept from your friend saying the snake is a captive born and breed (Hint Hint) then you should be fine. Remember When you apply for a permit, that gives Johny Law the right to come knocking on your door and examine your animals you have a permit for. That means they may also see animals you do not have a permit for. I do not know anyone this has ever happened to. But it can. Therefore I would not apply for the permit and keep it quiet and enjoy the animals you have and take care of them and love them. Because if your animals are taken away the only ones that suffer are the animals. Yes you may pay a fine but the animals will most likely die of poor care. The bringing them to schools is a whole other ball game. I am a teacher here in the city. And have been for 11 years. Even if your pet is the calmest animal in the world. It still has the ability to bite. All you need is one kid to get bit or get a stomach ache(salmonellia) or even scared and have nightmares. Then the parents sue. Even if they loose the lawsuit you still go through the agravation. Trust me it is just not worth the nonsense. Times are different today in the society we live in. Keep your animals on the down low and enjoy them. Sorry for the long post it is just my own 2 cents

There is a reason some states are apprehensive of the trade and possesion of native species in their state.
A) The laws are made to protect the species from illegal collection of the state's population. The population can be significantly impacted through private collection. Collection from the native populations for commercial trade is even worse on the native population.
B) Diseases that may not be present in the wild can be present in captivity. If the captive species are introduced into the wild population then these captive diseases can be transferred into said wild population.
An off-hand example;
Alternia can be a plague to those that commercial raise American Ginseng/ Goldenseal. When someone is legally collecting roots from the wild he is urged to bleach the tools he takes into the wild. This is because Alternia can be introduced to the wild American Ginseng/Goldenseal populations from those tools the person brought with him into the wild that he uses on his captive plants.
If Alternia became widespread in the already perhaps crippled wild American Ginseng and Goldenseal populations it may indeed push those wild populations into even worse trouble than they already are in.

That is why those laws are in place. In my State if you have the proper licence that also entitles the DNR to make checks of the animals in your possesion. This is to ensure that there is no chance of illegal trade or escape of captive native species into the wild populations.

And ESPECIALLY the latter part about "times have changed"!!!!

Ain't THAT the friggin' truth!.....today it is ALL about blaming someone else, suing someone else, or getting something from someone else. Oh!, almost forgot,......but NOBODY takes responsibility for themselves and their own stupid actions, it's ALWAYS someone elses fault..LOL!!

Snakes seem to be a perfect "vehicle" for lawsuits nowadays, and I don't think I would take such a risk with the public either.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

It does sound like you should keep it on the DL (in other words make this your last post about it). If you want to go the permit route, check with other people who've gotten the permit to get a feel for how the officials are - for all you know maybe they look the other way in these kinds of cases, but do your research before you approach them.

I'd offer to take the snake but PA recently prohibited importation of native herps, even common ones here like black rats

Billy

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Phillyherping

I have kept a black rat in the past with a permit from the DNR in Michigan. I used it in teaching science in an elementary setting. The black rat is protected in MI, so it's illegal to keep or collect one. Mine was bought from a private breeder and it pays to have a receipt to prove that. Of course each State is likely different in how they handle each species, so I'd feel your protective agency out.

Good luck in your decision.

>>It does sound like you should keep it on the DL (in other words make this your last post about it). If you want to go the permit route, check with other people who've gotten the permit to get a feel for how the officials are - for all you know maybe they look the other way in these kinds of cases, but do your research before you approach them.
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>>I'd offer to take the snake but PA recently prohibited importation of native herps, even common ones here like black rats
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>>Billy
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>>Phillyherping

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Ratsnake Foundation