Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've seen a fair number of large easterns, but not many females reaching these sizes. Has anyone noticed if there is a tendency for a significant size difference (1 foot or more) between male and female chain kings?

Tim

Third Eye

I have heard and also believe that it is due to so much energy and nutrients put into egg production.

Alot of breeders dont let females get so big before they breed them taking energy. I know most big wc are males too, but thats anecdotal. I would like to see if a female could be grown to the same size as a male if she werent bred.....but where is the fun in that? Jeff

I've found 3' gravid females in the field, and I'm sure they'll breed in the wild at much smaller sizes, so that doesn't do much to support your theory, that ,in captivity, people are just breeding their Easterns too soon. I agree that reproduction efforts, both in captivity, and in the wild, are very taxing to a female. That does not explain that in the wild and in captivity why males outgrow females, starting the day they hatch. I have seen a 5'-6" male in the field, two years in a row, in the same area. Yet, the largest female I've seen was just short of 4'. I have seen at least three males in '07 that were over 5'. There is definitely a reason that males reach much longer lengths than females, but I don't think that it's just a byproduct of captivity.
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Maybe natural selection... the female would probably be less likely to eat the male if he's bigger than her, right?
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake possible mix (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

I have a WC female that always trys to eat the male I pair her up with. She's definitely a B!~ch to get a long with. LOL!!!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

In most vertebrates, you can tell in which species males fight over females by looking at sexual size dimorphism. If there is a lot of male to male competition, then males will be larger than females (bluegill sunfish, deer, gorillas, humans, some rattlesnakes). If there is little male combat over females, then large female size is selected for, presumably since larger females can produce more eggs/offspring per season (bass, garter snakes, many mammals).
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>...If there is a lot of male to male competition, then males will be larger than females (bluegill sunfish, deer, gorillas, humans, some rattlesnakes)...

Seems to hold true where there is one-on-one combat, e.g., Crocodillians, Lions, etc., but not so where multiple males swarm a female, e.g., Green Anaconda and northern Gartersnakes. Also doesn't hold true where males must court femals, e.g, Red Ear Sliders, Bald Eagle, or display to attract a mate, e.g., Bird of Paradise, Bower Bird.

Male combat occurs in Cornsnakes, and can stimulate mating activity in dominant males. Has anyone here observed male-combat in Kingsnakes? Has anyone used male-combat to get there guys "in the mood'?

Very interesting discussion!

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

But I also observed the victor of the "battle" consuming the looser when I housed the gladiators together, as I was told by others in some previous posts a while back that it was alright to do so!....................just kiddin'..LOL!!!!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Yes, and interestingly, I've seen three corns over 6 ft, and ALL were male. One was caught right next to the Okeetee hunt club property!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I've noticed huge differences, even in growth rates from hatchlings. I have a pair of holdback '06 F1s that have always been good eaters, but the male is at least 6" longer than the female already. I've seen Carsten "Zee" Zoldy's 6' male in person, but I've never seen a female over 5' and most are much shorter. I've noticed a big difference in head size as well. Males tend to get a much broader heads than females.
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

It is pretty clear that there is sexual dimorphism in the Eastern King. I have seen whopper females before but on average they are the exceptions to the rule and do not achieve the lengths their male counterparts do. Biggest male I have ever seen: a bona fide 7 footer that resided at the norfolk zoo in the early 1980s(purportedly local but no one seems to know its exact history). The biggest female was a 5 and 1/2 footer from right outside of savannah,Ga.