Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I picked this little girl up from Floyd Presley last week. Her parents are "hypo." I've never seen a hypo black rat, asides from the babies he sells. He assures me it is not albino, because they develop melanin as they grow. The adults tend to be red, silver, and brown, with silver heads. Anyone have pics of what they'd be?
It almost sounds to me like they'd be T albino. Is this yet another strain of albino in black rat snakes?
I would say albino, and just watch her grow, and see how she turns out, but the thing that throws me of is that she has NO belly pattern whatsoever. Her belly is solid white, from chin to tail tip. Not even a hint of any color or pattern. My other albino has a hint of belly pattern, and did even as a baby, and all of my other black rats have belly pattern.

Also, the colors are slightly off. I'm struggling to get color-accurate photos of her. It seems like no matter what I do, she looks more red in photos. The closest ones are the first ones. The ones where she looks dark red . . refer back to the first ones, and keep that dark bubble-gum color in mind.

thanks,
Ronnie Nocera

Oops. Please ignore the last two photos. Not sure what happened there, I think I accidentally clicked the links to the photo gallery.

When you say that they develop melanin as they mature, do you have any photos of these adults? They seem to "look" like amels from the pics you posted,with ZERO dark pigment(now anyway), and pink eyes.

I suppose it's also possible to gain more dark as well as you mentioned, but I wonder if it is TRULY melanin, or maybe tyrosinase involved here. Some good clear "full-body" shots of these youngsters, AND the adults would really come in handy.

Very interesting either way!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I don't have photos of the adults, sorry. I'll definitely be documenting this one to see how it turns out, though! I'm trying to do some research on them, and I've found mention of a couple articles by H. Bernard Bechtel and Elizabeth Bechtel that mention a T Hypomelanistic black rat snake, as well as an allelic T amelanistic that was bred with that hypo. I'm trying to get the articles through my university, and have a couple friends trying to find them, as well, but we can't seem to find anything more than a preview.

It does look like an amel to me, too. There isn't even a hint of dark pigment anywhere in it. It's all red and orange. As I said, the amount of pigment is so reduced that there isn't even a HINT of a belly pattern, either. I can't say that I've ever seen a black rat without SOME hint of belly pattern.

I'll see if I can't get a hold of some pictures of the parents.

Thanks for the input!

n/p
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I have seen rusty black rats marked as "hypo" many times. they come in a wide range of colors. I have one that was a spitting image of that snake 15 months ago. now he is a dark gray silver color with pinkish/purple back ground color, gray head, pink belly, cream/white chin and neck, dark pupils, and bright orange irises. beautiful snake, not so easy to find anymore.

I'd be surprised if it was rusty. Floyd breeds rusties, and says this definitely isn't rusty. Maybe it is one of the other strains, though . . . That could be a possibility.

>>I have seen rusty black rats marked as "hypo" many times. they come in a wide range of colors. I have one that was a spitting image of that snake 15 months ago. now he is a dark gray silver color with pinkish/purple back ground color, gray head, pink belly, cream/white chin and neck, dark pupils, and bright orange irises. beautiful snake, not so easy to find anymore.

Could I see some pics of your rusty? thanks!

>>Could I see some pics of your rusty? thanks!

I originally thought you were only asking about the "red" hatchling.
After reading again I wonder if you are asking about both??
Sorry, just something about the original wording and a couple of the responses make it slightly unclear to me.
If you are only asking about the amel or "albino" specimen then I must asking dumbly...Is the other one a rusty?
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

The darker one is a brindle. I was only asking about the lighter one. Sorry I didn't specify that!

>>The darker one is a brindle. I was only asking about the lighter one. Sorry I didn't specify that!

I think it was more a few of the responses then the original post that had me wondering.
Thanks for clearing it up.
I like the brindle.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

The bright red one is what we call a 'red albino'. The darker one in the second picture is a 'hypo'.

Yeah, under normal cercumstances I can go along with that, but unless the "red albino" is a paradox of sorts, how can the melanin it gets as it ages be explained?

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

>>The bright red one is what we call a 'red albino'. The darker one in the second picture is a 'hypo'.

Disagree Herman (surprise surprise) the darker snake in the second pic is a brindle.

dg

The brindles can be extremely variable, and I can just see some slightly darker areas in the blothes that are typical of the brindle morph.

Here is another similar looking one from a zoo.

~Doug

-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

The darker one is indeed a brindle. Sorry I didn't mention that. I was only talking about the brighter one.

And, as Doug said, how does a red albino gain melanin as it grows? I guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

Ok, I guess I was wrong about the brindle. Sure looks like many of the 'hypo's' I've seen offered for sale, but then again, a label is just a label.

Hey RedMoon
I sold Floyd what I thought at the time HYPO'S but after more breeding and the help from other about the history of these sweet snakes I later found out they are "amel lavender" blk rats....Bam171bam [Dewey]and I breeded my "hypo" to his amel blk rat we got a small clutch I think 5 eggs [about 3 yrs ago]we hatched 2 all amels...At that point I was convinced they are amel lavender blk rat snakes.

BTW
The snake in question looks like a very nice amel rusty...The next time you see Floyd tell him HI for me thanks

thats what i meant. "amelanistic" rusty

So, through this thread, I've had people tell me it looks like:

an amel rusty
an amel
a rusty
a red albino (same as amel, normally . . . different in black rats?)

And dre just said that although it looks like an amel rusty, although by parentage (coming from the "hypos" he told to Floyd that turned out to be lavender amels), it should be a lavender amel.

Man. Now I'm really anxious for this snake to grow up, and see what it turns out to be.

Any more possibilities?

thanks everyone!
Ronnie Nocera