Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Another point to consider is that commercially produced rodents are being raised on processed, manufactured diets. So, when you feed a rat to a monitor, you are recycling a manufactured food through one animal into another. Your rat is a middle-man so to speak for getting a processed food into your lizard. I do roughly the same with Mazuri...I just cut the middle-man.
If I'm not mistaken, I think all commercially availble feeder animals are fed manufactured foods. Rats, mice, chicks, crickets, etc....all fed manufactured diets. You are just recycling it when you feed those to your lizards. They are what they eat !!
Rob

I agree.
You are what you eat.
I would always feed my monitors in a bowl, wheather it be pinkies, fresh killed mice or rats, or a monitor diet in a pinch.
I am no pro by all means, but have had a lot of luck through the years. I have never hand feed any of my monitors, which seems to help them be a little more docile.
I have even had alittle luck breeding waters and black throats

"Another point to consider is that commercially produced rodents are being raised on processed, manufactured diets. So, when you feed a rat to a monitor, you are recycling a manufactured food through one animal into another."

Hello sir, I'd just like to point out that, while what you said is true to an extent, there something I'd like to mention. Yes, you are what you eat, but the rats/mice/bugs poop don't they? What if they were pooping out the useless stuff from manufactured foods? Sort of 'filtering' it out for the monitors. Hmmm, what if the monitors cannot filter it out themselves, so this extra junk in manufactured foods leads to their downfall...

I dunno, maybe I'm dumb, but it makes sense to me.

What you said indeed sounds very logical. But this little thing just ran through my mind.

Cheers,
Ryan
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Please excuse my childish-sounding user name. Unless I created a new account, I can't change it.

To say this in a different way, the "middleman" may be a necessary step. Maybe that is why varanids eat the "middleman" in the wild.

When I was raising my own rodents, I fed seeds, grain, and raw veggies from my garden along with the manufactured food. I tried, but I just could not get my snakes to eat their oatmeal.

It is true that they wont eat a grain based, veggie based diet.

Keep in mind that if the ingredient label is correct the food contains cooked, desicated, dehydrated parts and or liquids from the processes involved in making pig and fish into human foods, with blood added.
According to the standards used in the petfood industry, cooked pig fat, and or bodily fluids that come from the process of turning a live pig into human grade food products, or any parts not suitable for human consumption can be considered porcine or pig on an ingredient label. Fish, well you can guess its the same. Blood is added to make a crocodilian attracted to it when the stuff is placed in water.
All thats required is that those liquids (which are heavier, therefore the highest weight among the other ingredients be listed first) must come from that process. This is ths sad truth among all but the few very rarest manufactured petfoods.

I could careless what the rodents or crickets eat. I am basing my recomendations on RESULTs of feeding rodents and crickets and other insects, AKA whole prey items, to monitors. As in, RESULTS. Not as in, ingredients.

To me this is a huge problem in this trade, people base many decisions on advertising and theory. Yet, there are REAL HARD results.

So I voice that, there is a longterm highly success history of feeding whole prey items. End of that STORY. Cheers

What the holy heck do you think those prepared diets(croc diet, etc) are MADE FROM????? Then what was fed those animals. Also what was included so that it won't ROT?????

Not that that means all that much. The point is, monitors were built from the ground up to consume whole prey, then in captivity, they have expressed extreme success feeding on whole prey.

Being that whole prey is easily and relatively inexpensive, why would a person pick that over something made by man, to copy poorly whole prey and cheaply as he can. To do so, that man has to add all manner of fillers and preservatives and dye, etc.

Personally, I could give a rats bum(get it, whole prey, rat, hahahahahaha) what you feed your animals. But what I do not understand is, why do you recomend it to others? When you "know" whole prey is better. Why I ask? cause its handy for you? But what if others are willing to not be some handy.

I personally think, those wanting to keep a monitor should cost in the most expensive and best methods of keeing, not the cheapest.

On another note, as a child of the 60's running naked in a field of tall grass, in front of every kind of reptile, I do feel quilty about taking everything these natural wild animals know and understand, AWAY FROM THEM. Down to a point of letting natural predators seek, chase and kill their prey. Instead, you cause them to eat from a bowl. Perfect I tell you.

I fully understand, in captivity, we cannot give them everything, but we CAN give them as much as we can, NOT TAKE AWAY AS MUCH AS WE CAN. Cool dudes, and she whispered in my ear, something crazy, feed them whole prey. Cheers

Maybe some people cannot handle the blood and guts and killing that should come with owning a predator, that they resort to kibble in a bowl. After all, that is mostly what animals do. They kill each other!

Maybe some people are doing it to make money. They pay someone to kill animals, grind them up, mix in some sawdust and preservative, and sell it to the people above.

Regarding running naked in a field of grass, been there, tried that when I was young. The things I remember most were the CHIGGERS.

Frank, what do you do about CHIGGERS? Are you so mean, or part reptile, that you are CHIGGER proof?

Thats easy the fast way to stop them is clear nail polish, lol.
Of course it doesnt matter for some of us if we are covered from head to toe, chiggers still get imbedded.
I understand the point Rob made about trying something he was suggested, and its working for him.
The problem is that the average newer keeper who doesnt have the sucess, the understanding of the animal, and a basis in husbandry that has proven to work should not attempt to make changes such as this, or to experiment.
By the way now I remember the mazuri bag we bought was 50 lbs. Im sure the monitors, and reptiles can adapt themselves to make use of it, think about this, dogs are carnivorous scavengers, what do most people feed them, a grain based fat sprayed, synthetic vitamin added diet, but understand this, we as humans have kept dogs in captivity for many many thousands of years. In fact the Native Americans crossed the Bering straits, crossed North America traveled into Greenland, and traveled south into South America with dogs. So far the oldest known native artifacts in the continental US were carbon dated to over 40,000 years, so for many more years before we have kept and cared for dogs, they are much more like ouselves as an animal.
Monitors have only been kept in artificial environments in captivity a fraction of that time. They are still their own ancestor, they have not changed or have not been manipulated by man to a point where they require us for survival.
With this being said, if you would like to try any diet by all means go for it, but when you do have problems, where do you start in the path of correction, to get back to a known start point that works?
Years ago I experimented in monitor and reptile husbandry, I took advice from other who did so also. Use what works at least until you have real results to start from to make changes.
If someone does not like the idea of a predator doing what it does naturally, if someone does not like a predator at least eating what it should (blood and guts), if they can not except that, dont you think they should be seeking a different type of pet beforehand, not trying to change the pet?

Maybe some people cannot handle the blood and guts and killing that should come with owning a predator, that they resort to kibble in a bowl. After all, that is mostly what animals do. They kill each other! then they should get an iggie

Maybe some people are doing it to make money. They pay someone to kill animals, grind them up, mix in some sawdust and preservative, and sell it to the people above. I am fairly sure those companies making prepared diets are doing so to make money, but that is not the point is it?

Regarding running naked in a field of grass, been there, tried that when I was young. The things I remember most were the CHIGGERS.

Frank, what do you do about CHIGGERS? Are you so mean, or part reptile, that you are CHIGGER proof? I live and hunted all across southern U.S. most of mexico, much of central america, and many other countries. And I have had chiggers twice. Weird huh?

"I live and hunted all across southern U.S. most of mexico, much of central america, and many other countries. And I have had chiggers twice. Weird huh?"

That is beyond weird! I walk anywhere in southeast AZ, especially the Ritas, during Chigger season, and they get me good. I get them in my yard, or should I say they get me. There are people that take me along for bait cause I get them when no one else does. I guess I must be a Chigger delight!

My second oldest daughter is like that, even bugs that do not bite, BITE HER. In the 40 years I have been stomping around southern Az. I think I got chiggers once, in the southern part of the patagonias.

I almost never wear bug repellent either. Oh well, I must taste like c$#$#$ Cheers

As Eric B. would say "spill the wine, eat that rat"....TC

Good one Tom, I LOL, Thanks

sad part is only you and I got the joke. NO ONE ELSE IS OLD ENOUGH!!!!!TC

Yea Tom, we are old, but we are both still STUDS, old ones, but still, hahahahahahahahaha Take care