Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Six weeks ago I acquired an '07 BRB from a friend of mine. This snake had been well started and had consumed a dozen meals since birth with no difficulty. The night I received the snake he regurgitated a partially digested hopper mouse, most likely due to stress and an unexpected drop in temperature. Since this time he has refused all attempts at feeding. I have tried a wide range of prey items including undersized live food such as live mouse pinks. I have also tried frozen/ thawed items such as rat pinks and fuzzy and hopper mice but nothing seems to work. Temps are in the mid 80F's during the day and drop off about 10F at night. Humidity in his enclosure is kept on the high side. He is being kept in a 18 quart plastic box with numerous hides. Feeding attempts have been in the evening with prey items left overnight. I have treated him several times with Bene-Bac to increase his gut flora. At this point I am becoming very concerned and he has become very thin and still refuses food.

Any insights on what may turn him around would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Phil

keeping a new brb anywhere near the mid 80's is the culprit. When you say "mid", my guess is you don't have a temp gun to get an accurate measure on the temps. "Mid" would also tell me that it is not a thermostat and that prolly has your temps fluctuating and he or she don't like that.

Being that it regurged the first night you had him, I hope you learn not to get any new snakes with full bellies cuz they will throw up EVERY time and that is the reason people shouldn't ship after a meal. I understand that it is from a friend and you prolly drove but that was stressful on the little guy.

What are you measuring temps with? cuz if mid 80's is off of something on the wall then not cool and if you can get a live fuzzy mouse I would try that but not after having the temps adjusted to max out at 81 (highest I would ever allow it go) or so for the time being. Don't try to feed until 3 weeks after the regurge so the gastric acid and enzymes can build back up again. I would personally try to get a live rat pink before the live fuzzy so he can digest it easier then try the fuzzy but make sure he is very well hydrated (I know you mentioned that it high humidity), so unplug the heating device and see what you got cuz 78 for a hot spot would be awesome for the little one

any more ?'s just post them, hope it helps
Bob

Thanks for the reply. My temps readings are from digital thermometers. My snake room itself is heated with no supplemental heating elements in individual cages. Some parts of the room are far warmer than others though so finding a place that does not exceed 81F would not be difficult. The belly full of food thing was an oversight (my friend keeps 400 snakes), and was not realized until the snake was brought to me. Normally this would not have happened, but unfortunately it did, and the regurgitation resulted. I will immediately move his box to a cooler area of the room.

Thanks again,

Phil

keep him in the cool spot for a week or so and let his body just relax from being stressed out and recooperate those fluids from the hot temps from before. If you can't get that live rat pinky which is very hard to come by then go with a live mouse big fuzzy/ small hopper so that it is able to move around and when your brb sees it after he gets his strength back (3 weeks at least from regurge) , you should be right on track. take care and best of luck
Bob

Phil,
...Good advice on temperatures and waiting to feed again has been given by Bob. No need to be administering Bene-bac. It is not likely that a gut flora deficit has anything to do with the snake refusing food. On the other hand, stress is a big reason for snakes, especially the secretive ones like little BRBs to quit feeding. Administering medications to these snakes usually requires some variation of restraining them and forcing the medication. This is way more than enough stress to cause them to go off feed. Little BRBs are eating machines if you provide the right captive environment and offer them the food they really want most which is a live hopper mouse offered at night.
Jeff

Thanks guys!

He has now been moved to an area of my snake room that ranges from 80F as a high during the day and 70F as a night time low. I will try feeding again with a live fuzzy mouse in several days and see what happens.

Phil

Phil,
Those temps are a can't miss with these snakes. If it was me I would not offer until I noticed its head peeking out of its hide in the evening. If it regurged 3 weeks ago it is a non-issue at this point and a hopper mouse or, my fav, a big fat stumbling, rat pinkie will not be turned down.
Should'nt you be gearing up for flipping some tin here in the next month (I think your the guy who posts in the kingsnake forum, niger right?)?
Good luck with your BRB,
Paul

Thanks for the confirmation on the temps Paul. I should add though that the regurgitation occured six weeks ago and not three, and to date he still hasn't fed. This is why I am so concerned at this point. He has also become noticebly thin. I am hoping that the lower temps that are being suggested will get him to break his fast and get him moving in the right direction.

Yeah, spring is just around the corner and I know we are itching to get back out to the tin fields!

Thanks again, Phil

better late than never.

100% agreed with all said so far and if it's been 6 weeks, by all means go with a mouse hopper. If it was sorter I would have suggested a smaller prey item.

Not a big worry going 6 weeks without food, I have had stuborn feeders go 4 months from birth with NO food before I force fed. Only because I was so worried, it was small, a bit smaller than at birth but all in all, was fine.

In the wild babies can and do go for months with no food due to lack of finding anything they could eat. They are genetically designed to go long periods between meals and gorge when food is found.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for the response. I was thinking a smaller meal as a way to hopefully avoid another regurgitation just in case his digestive system had not fully recovered. Either way it is encouraging to hear that they can go for long stretches without food. He was well started before coming my way so this has to be a plus. On the down side he has become very thin in the past couple of weeks and I would really like to get a meal into him. I forgot to mention, but through this six week fast we did shed once with no difficulty. I thought for sure that afterward he would accept food but no luck yet.

Thanks again, Phil

Phil you are a PIT guy no ?

If their advice does not do the trick. Same husbandry regimen but try this:

Take a F/T/W chick or quail and cut open the belly and put in a live fuzzie mouse and mat that fur with the muck without suffocating the animal and try in the daytime and or night. Most Brazilian's have a hard time turning down any type of avian prey. The one concern could be with "imprinting" the snake on that food item. In my opinion it is better to do that and have a live snake to retrain then to wait to long and have a snake that is too weak and compromised to even properly digest a rodent type food item. Wait to long and that very well could happen regardless if the snake finally decides to eat a rodent. Snakes eat Avian prey, even when you want them to eat Chinese lab food, which is common in Brazil I am sure.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I once fell from a 50' tree with many branches that slowed my decent and landed directly on my back on a large rock...

My best friend said...Dude are you ok ?...

I said...Give me 5 minutes...

"No sir...I didn't like it..." R&S.

LOL

if you are looking to leave it unattended overnight, you know one should use a toothless animal, use a pinkie if necessary, just to get food into the gut. I spent way too much time in my life practically arguing with a snake over what I THOUGHT it should be eating.

>>Phil you are a PIT guy no ?
>>
>>If their advice does not do the trick. Same husbandry regimen but try this:
>>
>>Take a F/T/W chick or quail and cut open the belly and put in a live fuzzie mouse and mat that fur with the muck without suffocating the animal and try in the daytime and or night. Most Brazilian's have a hard time turning down any type of avian prey. The one concern could be with "imprinting" the snake on that food item. In my opinion it is better to do that and have a live snake to retrain then to wait to long and have a snake that is too weak and compromised to even properly digest a rodent type food item. Wait to long and that very well could happen regardless if the snake finally decides to eat a rodent. Snakes eat Avian prey, even when you want them to eat Chinese lab food, which is common in Brazil I am sure.
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>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
>>I once fell from a 50' tree with many branches that slowed my decent and landed directly on my back on a large rock...
>>
>>My best friend said...Dude are you ok ?...
>>
>>I said...Give me 5 minutes...
>>
>>"No sir...I didn't like it..." R&S.
>>
>>LOL

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I once fell from a 50' tree with many branches that slowed my decent and landed directly on my back on a large rock...

My best friend said...Dude are you ok ?...

I said...Give me 5 minutes...

"No sir...I didn't like it..." R&S.

LOL

Thanks for the insights Frank. The temps have now been down for the past week and this evening I am going to try again with a small live and harmless meal. I am hoping this does the trick and I can turn this little guy around. The avain prey suggestion makes since and if I fail to have success tonight I will pursue this route.

Yep, I'm definitely a Pit guy but I have been having some fun working with a few boids lately. This is something entirely new for me and for the most part has been very rewarding.

All of my big Pits will be coming up from winter cooling soon and I can't wait watch them slam the rats lol!

Thanks again, Phil

Yeah I knew I see you on the Pit forum when I peruse the forum...

here are a few Black Pine's of mine...

also please post results of your Brazilian attempts at feeding...

Little bigger then a PIT bite, top of mouth of 10 foot African Rock Python that bit me this late last year.

Hope all is well when your Pituophis awaken

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I once fell from a 50' tree with many branches that slowed my decent and landed directly on my back on a large rock...

My best friend said...Dude are you ok ?...

I said...Give me 5 minutes...

"No sir...I didn't like it..." R&S.

LOL

Beautiful black pine and great sequence of photo's!

No luck last night. I'll keep you posted on how things go.

Thanks, Phil

I got them several years back from John Cherry...Lloyd Lemke stock...nice stuff. Thanks for the compliments and keep us posted on the Brazilian. Is she hunting at night ? or just hiding all the time ?

>>Beautiful black pine and great sequence of photo's!
>>
>>No luck last night. I'll keep you posted on how things go.
>>
>>Thanks, Phil

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I once fell from a 50' tree with many branches that slowed my decent and landed directly on my back on a large rock...

My best friend said...Dude are you ok ?...

I said...Give me 5 minutes...

"No sir...I didn't like it..." R&S.

LOL