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I just wanted to know if this is normal. My '05 Jalisco Milk Snake hadn't eaten in 2 weeks, so I tried to feed him (he'll only eat fuzzies, so I give him 3) and he rejected the meal. Tried again 2 days later and another day after that with fresh mice, and no go...

Then, at the 3 week mark I tried again, and when he didn't eat, I just left them in with him. After 2-3 days, he ate one, so I moved him out of the feeding cage and put the other two in his main cage (where he usually eats) and he finished off the other two as well. (I put the mice in plastic cups on their side and he goes in and gets them... sometimes all in one cup...sometimes in 2 different cups).

Anyway,

1. Is it normal for a snake to sometimes want mice that have "ripened" a couple days? He used to always eat the fresh mice.

2. How long is it "safe" to leave mice rotting in the enclosure before they need to be pulled out. I'd always previously used 24 hours as the mark, but these didn't seem bloated or gross.

THANKS!

Walt

Walt, I have a few snakes that will take there time and eat one per day for three days if they aren't to close to the heat then they won't bubble up and get all ripe.
Can you post pics of your "jalisco milk" and were did you get him/her?
Thanks Shannon

Hey, Shannon!

Thanks for the info. I'll try to remember to take some new pics tomorrow and post them. His name is "Tweek" (from South Park, since he's so skittish), and I got him from a reptile show in St. Louis, MO.

Walt

Here's an old pic. He's much bigger now... mostly long but not real thick. I think he was getting ready to shed in this pic. He's normally much brighter.

Like I said, I'll take some new pics...

Walt

The first one is from a couple of months ago... the rest today.
He pooped all over me again. He hates being picked up. Once he's in a firm stable grip, though, (like these pics) he calms down.

The funny thing is that I was looking up Arcifera on Google, and one "fact sheet" on care says milk snakes don't bask, so a light above is inappropriate. Tweek basks on his half-log all the time. Anybody else notice this? Do your milks bask??

(Also, is there a way to put multiple pics on one post??)

Walt

another pic

one more

dorsal view

By the way... Tweek ('05) is about 30-31" long. I use cypress mulch for his substrate. He spends a lot of time under his coconut or half-log, but he also spends quite a bit of time out. Sometimes half his body is in his coconut and the other half (head) is on the half-log basking under the light. If startled, he backs back into his coconut... lol.

He's been verified as Arcifera on this site by pics and number of saddles.

Thanks for looking... enjoy!

Walt

Walt, thanks for all the pics he looks very healthy.He is actually a ruthveni and not a arcifera but for hobby terms calling him a arcifera is probably o.k. since he is most likely "from" jalisco.
True arcifera are much difeerent looking but thats a whole nother story.
Anyway, looks good and just enjoy him.
here are a couple pics of true arcifera.

Shannon

How do you tell the difference between ruthveni and arcifera? I've found pics on the web and they both look the same to me. Is it size? One site says adult arcifera are 42" and adult ruthveni are 30". Mine is 2.5 yrs old and is about 30-31". Is he done growing?

I only paid like $25 or $30 for him at a reptile show. I saw one site online advertising yearling ruthveni at $350. Did I get an awesome deal or is that price exhorbitant? Or are arcifera much cheaper?

I'm confused, because I remember a year or more ago, there was a thread where people were arguing over whether Tweek was arcifera or not, and I thought the final consensus is that he was.

I may search for that thread...

Walt

I didn't find that thread yet, but I found one with juvenile photos of Tweek, if that helps. Plus, you can count his bands.

Walt

Juvenile Pics of Tweek - Jan 06

L.t.arcifera and L.ruthveni have a convoluted history. Long story short, what we once called "Jalisco Milks" in the hobby have recently been found to be L.ruthveni from a population in Jalisco, Mexico. The only true L.t.arcifera in the US (probably) are Laguna de Capala (Lake Chapala) locality animals that Bob Applegate formerly worked with. I believe Shannon has a breeding colony of them now. Differences in scalation, coloration, genetic make-up, and hemipene morphology are used to tell the two species apart. A more detailed description of the arcifera/ruthveni history is found on the sierraherps website (link off of the kingsnake.com main page), dedicated to mexicana complex kings.

Hope this helps
-Cole

Thanks for the info, Cole. I went to that web site and it was an interesting read.

Walt

I can't see your pics, because I'm at work and this computer doesnt always show the images, but as far as your snake basking, or leaving half it's body in the hide and half exposed in under the heat light, sounds like your cages is set up poorly.

It sounds like the snake is trying to control it's body temp. If the ambient temp is cool, but there is one lone hot spot provided by the heat lamp then that might be why he is half in and out of the hide. It also might be why he is basking in the light.

Do you have any other heat source, and what is the temp away from the basking spot?
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Don't all snakes "try to control their body temp" by getting near or away from heat sources as needed?

I've always thought he was half in the coconut due to shyness since he's "exposed" while basking.

I don't have thermometers on each side of the enclosure, so I don't know true temps, but I use a 100W bulb on one side. There are hides on hot/cold and in the middle. He can also burrow if need be. Maybe I need to throttle back to a 60W or 75W bulb if you think he's too warm. Sometimes he lays up against the front and side of the glass on the cool side. Is that an indication he's too warm? I never thought of it before, because he seems very healthy...

Walt

I've heard of this, too, and experienced it with my greybanded king a few times. I don't leave mine in more than 48 hours, but that's an almost arbitrary time.
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