Reptile & Amphibian Forums

HI, IM DOING SOME RESEARCH FOR A COLLEGE REPORT IM DOING ON KOMODOS
AND IM HAVING A HARD FINDING ANYTHING ON THE LAWS FOR KEEPING THEM.
ANYONE HAVE ANY GOOD INPUT? ALSO I WAS WATCHING NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC AND THEY WERE SAYING THAT KOMODOS ACTUALLY HAVE VENOM GLANDS, AND I ALWAYS THOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR TOXINS CAME FROM THE MANY SEPTIC BACTERIAS IN THEIR SALIVA. ANY IN PUT ON THESE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. THANKS, MIKE

Ask Terry at Central Coast Reptiles in California. I am pretty sure that he has worked with them for years in conjunction with Zoos. He knows the laws very well, and would probably be able to answer all of your questions.

I also remember seeing/reading something about the possibility of venom glands. Pretty cool stuff.

-Kory

THANKS, FOR THE RESPONSE I ACTUALLY DO ALOT OF BUISNESS WITH HIM AND I DID NOT EVEN THINK TO ASK HIM. THANKS, MIKE

I don't know anything about the laws regarding Komodos, but I have a little input on the venom gland issue. I also saw that show on Nat Geo, which led me to do a little research on my own...

Up until recently, I believe about 2006, it was believed that there were only 2 types of venomous lizards, the Beaded and Gila. It has now been found that most lizards have some type of venom, even the Bearded Dragon. If I remember correctly, the bearded dragon contains venom that was otherwise found only in rattle snakes, however beardeds to not have venom delivery system, and do not produce it in large enough amounts to endanger your life.

It has been found that lizards and snakes branched off from a common ancestor that had venom glands in both the top and bottom jaws. Lizards now have venom glands in their bottom jaws, and snakes have the glands in their top jaws. Iguanas however, have both top and bottom venom glands, which leads scientists to believe iguanas are the closest living animals to that common ancestor as mentioned above.

You should find a lot of information via scholarly or peer reviewed articles on google.

Law.
In the US or Europe, unless you get approval from the National Zoos worldwide zoo conservation program. Usually only the top zoos are involved with breeding programs with the komodo, and the government of Indonesia, all komodos are the national treasure of Indonesia, and property there of, just being kept other places by presidential decree.
By the way those organizations allow very very little controlled breeding to happen with komodos, this keeps them out of private hands alot easier. Outside the 1st world, and among countries with less than modern societies you can easily buy one for a fortune on the black market. Sometimes a black market komod makes it here.
A businessman had 3 he raised in his second house, his wife was the only one to know about them until he fell, broke his leg in the basement, and was eaten. She sent the police to the house with a warning about the HUGE lizards. This was years ago, he paid $30,000 each in cash on the black market for sickly smuggled hatchlings according to his wife.
Ask the national zoo about komodos in captivity, and what is required. They are also CITES 1, an endangered species, a national treasure in a country that would lock you away for 60 years awaiting a trial for alot less of a crime, or just mutilate and kill you.

KD's are appendix 1. which means you must have a permit to take them across national borders. They are also listed on the ESA, which means you need a permit to cross state borders.

And they do not issue permits very easily to private folks. They have on a couple of occasions, but I would not bet on it.

So, If by some oddball chance, and there is one In the state you reside in, you have no problems. Unless its illegal in your particular city, state, county(local laws)

So there you have it, if your neighor bred them and waits to give you a baby, heck, you can take it, no problems. Cheers

The governement of Indonesia the Komodo dragon is protected by law, none of the organizations will approve a permit unless you are approved by the correct organizations, and by presidential decree (President of Indonesia).
I found an article where a komodo was caught by customs (being smuggled), the individual is facing charges in a few countries for that. Customs, CITES, etc wont approve a komodo or the required permit unless you are an approved zoo, in fact the process takes about 2 years to recieve one after approved.
There have been a few people caught here in the US with them, big fines, prison time, etc. Also from CITES.
"Komodo and surrounding islands lie within the Komodo National Park (3). Law has protected these dragons since the 1930s (2), and international trade is prohibited by their listing on Appendix I of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES)"

Sorry, you Quote the appendix rules, yet it appears you have not read them. Read them.

I did indicate, the only way other then recieving the proper permits is if someone has an extra one in the state you live in.

CITES, does not have the power to stop a person from keeping a listed animal. But it does have the power to stop it from crossing borders.

Of course, if the government does not want you to have one, you won't. It does not have to be against the law. They will simply make a new one. Cheers

I specified that none of the organizations will give authorization for a CITES permit (the article I found from USFWS, CITES, etc says that they will not give authorization for a komodo to be privately owned (unless by approval of the national zoo and presidential decree from Indonesia) regardless if its within your state, across state borders, or imported from outside.
This is done out of respect for the program, its original intentions to protect the species, and the governement of Indonesia. I asked this same question, I was given a very specific set of instructions, and contacts, its not easy and takes time.
Its not as easy as obtaining any other CITES 1 animal. I know people who have offered many CITES 1 animals from out of state, outside of the US, who told me they can easily get the permits for anyone who wants them, it takes anywhere from 1-4 weeks depending on your location, inside the state, outside the state, or outside the country, and cost is a bit different.
Even if someone wanted to give you one from inside your state, you still need the approval, if not its your gamble and loss when caught.
I couldnt even imagine what the current value of a legitimate Komodo is now, a blackmarket animal was tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands.
According to Mark Bayless years ago, there are 2 legit privately kept komodos in the US, one is kept by a university organization, one by a botanical gardens open to the public. Actually you could say that there are 3, one is also kept by Disney in Florida (private zoo).

Desert monitors, owned by several on this forum, are of the exact same legal status as Komodos, Period. Cheers

Desert monitors easily, with little effort. CITES will NOT grant a permit for a komodo, unless you meet the criteria and requirements. Aside from that our own country will not allow it, I know this because there are no laws in my state or local laws for that matter about them, yet several years ago a guy had 3 komodos in my state, the only thing that prevented him from being arrested when found out was simply, he was killed by them beforehand.

Anyone interested, by all means try to obtain them, find out for yourself, then post what happened.

Frank is correct about this. If your in state you simply don't need a CITES permit. It's only necessary to cross state lines with it.

We have Chinese alligators an animal even more rare in the wild and the same rules apply here. In state no problem. They can't be moved across state lines without a CITES permit.
website

-----
CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

What your not understanding is, THE LAW is the same law for both. Whether they allow Permits, to cross international borders or states borders are decisions made by the powers that be. Those powers change with the wind(all the time) the REASONS they do or do not give permits, are a changing thing.

But without question, THE LAW is the same for all CITES 1 reptiles.

If you would have READ CITES, you would quickly understand, its regulations are actually based on protecting WILD animals(in their native habitat), NOT PROTECTING captive animals.

Its local governments that choose to switch that intent and make it more about captive animals, with no meaning to WILD animals. The reason is, they can do whatever they want. And they really can do nothing about the wild ones. And yes, egos and politics play an important part with CAPTIVE animals.

Any sane person should and could understand, the more they are bred in captivity, the better it is for wild populations. As long as the taking of the founder stock does not impact those wild populations. In this case, it surely does not. The wild population is nothing more then a large captive managed population.

In the case of the indo government, they dearly wanted Komodos to be bred in captivity, and in many different places. They wanted that in case of servere volcanic activity that could destroy those few islands these lizards occur on.

The Indo government does not play silly games about the best provider being AZA or accredited. They simply wanted them in capable hands. Zoos and politics got in the way of that.

But as you can see, our zoos cannot maintain them in any number and will end up maintaining a few old individuals. The reason is, They cannot do anything with the ones they produce. Handcuffed by their own regulations and naive direction. But then, it surely ain't my problem. Cheers

If you have enough money, you could buy one, say in Asia. Its amazing who or what zoos sell what animals to who, especially when lots of money knocks as an opportunity. Captive bred perenties that were sent to another zoo (according to the zoo that produced them) once ended up in a private owners collection in Japan, in fact the owner was bragging about them with pics on the internet, along with a very rare and expensive collection pictured in his cages, yes, some really crap cages also.

thanks for all the input, i actually saw you posting on another herp site in the same topic when i was searching google but i did not have an acct set up with that site and had never heard of it so
i was weary to give them all my info. thanks again, mike roscoe

michaelgroscoe@gmail.com

"Usually only the top zoos are involved with breeding programs with the komodo"
Don't know about that. There is a pair at the Lufkin zoo (small town zoo, I'll bet none of you have even heard of it..)that are extremely obese and kept on concrete.

-Reed

May I add, they are also in private zoos(a private zoo is a group of animals the owner calls a zoo) They are in non AZA accredited zoos and even in croc farms(for meat) etc etc. Cheers