Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i'm thinking about getting into Pine/Bull/Gopher snakes and i have a few questions,

How is their temperament?
Are they good feeders? How about when they are babies?
How large do they get?And how big of an enclosure do i need, would a cb-70 work?
How many eggs do they lay?

Also Im looking for some really pretty colorful morphs of either Pines, bull, or gophers so if you know any could you list it or even post a pic?

Thanks,
Reed

Hello Reed,

I'll try to answer your questions in the order you asked.

How is their temperament?
Generally speaking they are pretty easy to handle. Of course you are going to have the spoilers out there. The great many of my bulls are sweethearts but I do have a couple that would just as soon nail you than look at you. Babies are full of vinegar but most of that is bluff. Lots of times they'll strike with their mouth closed. It also comes down to handling. If you don't ever handle a baby and the only time you have contact with it is when you feed it, I wouldn't count on having a pleasant adult.
Are they good feeders?
This is probably the biggest plus to the genus is that they typically are dynamo feeders. This can also be the downfall. Some of the more delicate species (the mexican pines and the cape gopher for example) do not tolerate the powerfeed approach well at all to the point of you will lose your animals to regurgitation syndrome in a heart beat. I have had customers that want to feed their baby bulls at some pretty hard rates too. I never recommend it. You are asking for trouble if you do. Keep the prey items on the smaller side if there is a doubt between too big or too small. More frequent meals at smaller prey items is better than infrequent meals and larger prey items.

How about when they are babies?
I covered this some in the above questions. Some bulls and pines hatch out gigantic (Louisiana, Southerns, some bulls etc..) while others hatch out tiny (pumilus). Either way they are usually good eaters out of the egg.

How large do they get?And how big of an enclosure do i need, would a cb-70 work?
Here Pits run the gammet of any where from 2 feet (pumilus) to 8 feet plus (northern pines and bulls). The 8 footers are extreme examples and shouldn't be considered the norm. I have seen pics of 8 foot bulls and pines (I have seen the pine in person) and to say they are impressive is an understatement. I don't know what a "cb-70" is. I use tubs on a rack system. Most of my larger pits are in tubs that are roughly 42x24x8. If you intend to breed them the larger cages would allow the male a little "play" room.
How many eggs do they lay?
I have bulls that lay 10 eggs every year and I have bulls that lay 20 eggs every year. They are all roughly the same size, however I suppose it is just in their genetic background to lay more or less eggs. I think it will just depend on the snakes heritage. I will tell you the eggs and babies that come out of the 10 egg clutch are twice as big as the eggs and babies that come out of the 20.

Hope this helps you out some. All of us have said it, but its true. Once you get hooked on Pits, your in big trouble. The addiction is unreversable! Take care.

Jeremy

p.s. As for pics of some nice looking stuff (scroll through the pages and pages of this forum and you'll be able to see some of the nicest around. There are a lot of breeders that come to this forum with incredible stuff!)

Great response Jeremy. The only thing I can think to add is in my experience the best all around starters are:
Pine: Northern
Gopher: San Diego
Bull: Stillwater Hypo

Having said that always remember: (1)A significant amount of Pit behavior is Bluff. Don't give in!!!! In 40 years I Know of no deaths by Pit Bite.
(2) Pits tend to be individuals--for every 5 Northerns that are docile there is the occasional spawn of Hell that will come after you. But even this can end with time!
(3) If you don't mind loosing nose hairs from odiferous piles of poop, then Pits are for you. Be prepared to clean cages often! It is a true axiom: the more you feed, the more they poop, and the more they stink! The only snake worse in my opinion is an Indigo who has been fed fish and/or frogs/toads!!!!!!
(4) I've kept everything from Ringnecks to 12 ft. Pythons and all between. Pits are still my favorite. So much so that I'm willing to risk divorce this year as I once again get a pair of Northern Pines!!!! Just understand: Pits tend to be addictive!!!!!
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pits!!!!!!!!

Shalom,

Pat

I'd have to agree with you Pat. The northern was my first pit. I'll never forget the first bluff from that little thing. I couldn't believe an animal that size could make that much noise! Too much fun.

Jeremy

Yeah, I think Pat hit the nail on the head, esp w/ his list of beginners. I've got 2 WC female San Diego Gophers, and They are awesome snakes. Not mean @ all. They're one of those pets tha I know that for as long as I'm alive and keeping snakes i'll keep San Diego Gophers. Pits are addictive.

reako45

To add to the sound advice already given,

Temperament - This aspect truly runs the full gamut. I have wild Pits that are as docile and laid back as can be, and CB animals that will bite numerous times each and every time you come near them. The norm runs more towards the docile side but these snakes are truly individualistic in this regard. Some Pits are born laid back and others are born defensive. Some out grow it and others do not. At the end of the day their bites are not a serious matter for concern like it may be with some other genera. Their teeth are very sharp but not particularly long. Even the biggest of Pits will produce only superficial wounds that heal quickly. Occasionally teeth will break off and these will need to be dug out. Sounds worse than it is.

Feeding - When Pits are on they are on! They can consume enormous amounts of food in a short time, but as was pointed out by another poster moderation is the preferred regimen. Some individuals, usually wild caught specimens have a fairly narrow window of opportunity to work with. I have an adult male bullsnake that I collected from the northern sand prairies a number of years ago that confines its feeding schedule to four months each year. Despite this, he has grown into a magnificent specimen that breeds annually. When he is ready to eat I do not hold back on the food. This equates to a large rat every five days and I occasionally double up. This is the exception for sure but it may serve some purpose in demonstrating the extremes that are sometimes involved in keeping these snakes. Pits in general are known for feeding heavily and taking the occasional fast. Prolonged fast are best avoided by cooling them down in the winter months. With reproductive adults I cool for 3- 4 months. Babies are usually voracious feeders and the keeper has little of the trouble sometimes associated with other colubrids.

Size and Enclosure - The only thing I have to add is that I prefer starting hatchlings out in small boxes and moving to larger sizes as they grow. I also believe in feeding Pits heavily in their first two years. If maximum genetic potential is to be realized these first couple of years need to be capitolized on. By feeding heavy I mean two sizeable meals per week. I work with Pines and Bulls but some of the Mexican types are more delicate feeders from what I understand and if you go that direction you may want to adjust accordingly. For adults I prefer the 72 quart tubs.

Eggs - This depends on the species or even the ssp's and there is even clinal variation within ssp's. It can be as few as several eggs to as many as 20.

Morphs - They are out there and some of them are very nice. My preferrence is for the natural colored specimens with emphasis on exact locality.

Pits are a great genus of snakes to work with and by far my favorite. There is something out there for everyone and a great diversity between the various types to choose from.

Phil

thanks for the help (and everyone else) so a 44" long x 20" wide x 6 1/2 tall good? are they arboreal at all? i want to make sure they have enough room to feel comforatable

I will second that they are addictive. I keep mostly kings and got one gopher...now I have 3 pits. And all are great temperament. The striped was a hisser and striker when I first got him. But just keep handling him,,,I would rather be bitten when they are young,,than when they are big.
All types of morphs,,look at the classifieds.

-----
Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks
Amel Motley Corn
White Sided Bull
Striped Pacific Gopher

I love the smell of aspen shavings in the morning...lol

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

Isn't that first pic a Great Basin Gopher????? Where did you get it??? It's way cool!!!!!!
Shalom,
Pat

thanks,,,i got it at Exoctic Pets in Las Vegas....it was a baby,,now had it a few years,,,great snake.
-----
Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks
Amel Motley Corn
White Sided Bull
Striped Pacific Gopher

I love the smell of aspen shavings in the morning...lol

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"