Reptile & Amphibian Forums

dragged out my camera today and snapped a few shots of my tank and a quick one of my snakes. I will post better picts of my snakes later. cool side is on the left, hot side on right, water in middle. i moved the cork from over the water bowl to over the hot side hide. snakes still wont go into the hot side hide, but will bask on the cork now. I think they just don't like the hide. i am considering getting rid of the the faux rock hide for the more conventional half log hide, like i have on the left side. BTW they love the vines in the background. anyway enjoy the picts.

I wondered for ages why my python didn't use his cork hide or half log and prefered to go under the substrate or paper towel. Posters on kingsnake helped me realise that the hides I provided weren't enclosed enough for the ball's liking. The half log is wide open both ends and the cork had to much of an opening. This is why you hear of ball's nestling in paper towel substrate, they feel more secure there than in all the features the owner's provided. They like to touch the sides which is why people post about balls spending all their time in the water bowl - it feels more secure than the hide.

I tried a few experiments..

I tried a flat piece of bark on the wood chips and the python buried under it, coiling until it was out of sight - no gaping holes to put him off. You don't even need the cork if the substrate's deep enough.

I also used a black plastic tub upside down with misted sphagnum moss inside and he's still in their shedding since last week.

A lot of the hides for sale aren't really ideal for the snake but allow for viewing.

Ultimately though, you're happy if you're snakes happy and if that means seeing him less, so be it.

your right my half log was open at both ends but mine still preferred it to the half buried rock, with only one exit. but both could fit into the log comfortably, so it felt more secure to them. i finally covered up the other end of the log with substrate and they liked it even more. I was at the point of giving up on the rock hide and putting another log (that end was the hot end and i was worried that the snakes were getting too cold esp for proper digestion) when i moved the cork slab over the rock hide instead of over the water dish as it had been b4. they immediately started basking on the cork and using the rock hide (although only one at a time can fit into the rock hide..at least they still can bask together. i know 2 snakes in an enclosure is "bad" but these two are almost inseparable. see my post on bal python aggression, no replies so far, only the one story about they guy who had 6 snakes in an enclosure and had one eaten. so right now i'm not two worried . also I have a 40 long coming in, so i can dividi it u into 2 "rooms if needed . thought about the moss thing, but with my water bowl uncovered now, my humidity is almost perfect.

It's not true aggression that's the problem, it's that what you are calling "inseperable" means that they are competing for resources. Basking together? Both trying to get warm, and competing for the best site. Hiding together? Both trying to hide and the 'best' spot they can find is that log...so both are trying to hide in it.
What usually happens and is the bigger problem is that one of the snakes usually refuses to eat. So one thrives, while the other starts to slowly whither away.

It IS possible to house more than one together, but it takes a bit more work to make something suitable.

Did both of your snakes eat the last time you fed them?
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

sorry I missed this one, I understand your logic, but in this case i doubt there was anything to compete for. hides were big enough for both snakes to comfortably fit, basking areas were large enough as well. the hide they spent the most of their time in was the cold hide anyway, (i checked the temps carefully both hides were in proper range) concerning eating first snake ate well and quickly, second (the larger one) was ready to strike when my son dropped a toy on the floor and spooked the snake. there are possibly more subtle issues at play here that i am not able to see. but BP's are notorious for not eating, even if they don't share a cage. time will tell, but i would think that the smaller snake would be the one at risk, more often than not.
mike

Sometimes it just takes time. They are new, after all.

Competing over resources doesn't necessarily mean having a big enough hide to share, or a big enough basking spot to share...it means they want their own spot, their own basking area. To a solitary, simplistic animal like most reptiles are, someone else being in a prime spot means that they are competition for that spot, regardless of how big that spot is. A lot of times, problems can be solved by adding another hide or basking area, so that each animal can have its own if it wants without having to share.
Do you see what I'm trying to explain? Ideally, a 'perfect' cage allows the animal lots of choices - the choice to be hot, cold, secure and hot, secure and cold, secure and getting a drink, out and drinking, out and basking, etc, etc. With multiple animals in the cage, you have to provide an extra set of choices, so that each animal can choose to be any of the above choices, but also choose to be alone or in the company of the other snake.
The way the cage is set up now, there's only one hide to be cool in (or one log), one place to bask, and one warm hide...so if they want to be cool, or bask, or be warm, they would have to be doing it together because they have no other option. They have similar needs (same species!), they're similar sizes, and they live in the same space, so chances are they will cool down and warm up at nearly the same rate...so they'll bask and cool down (hide) at the same times. So, they may not be together all the time just because they like each other.

It may be that your snakes will become established, start eating, and you'll never have another problem and I will sound exceedingly silly for trying to explain this. But, if you do run into problems, instead of seperating them right away it may be a solution to give them more choices.

Am I making sense? Seperating is usually recommended because it's easier to tinker with things with only one snake to please - two snakes are just harder to get right sometimes.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

thank you jenny that was one of the most polite and well explained posts i have received on this forum.
have a great day
Mike

We all have good and bad days... some just have an unnatural number of bad days.

~jenny
-----
"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

That looks really nice. I reallyike natural looking settings, (even though natural would more likely be some type of savannah scrub grass I suppose?), this looks alot better than a piece of newspaper and a dog bowl...

Have you looked into using untreated cypress mulch instead of the aspen? I really prefer it, especially in a display tank, because it looks alot nicer and it holds humidity great. I do not have a decent picture of the dispay tank in my living room, but here is a rack pic with some cypress bedding. Cypress is cheap too...you can get a 40lb or about 1/3 yard for around $3-$5 dollars.

Alan

it does look very nice, and is a heck of a lot cheaper, but i think the aspen shows off the colors of my snakes better (just vanity showing i guess)
m