Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am interested on hearing firsthand accounts of ball python on ball python aggression, including kills and cannibalism. please include as much info as possible, including relative size differences, sex, temps, time of year, feeding issues, enclosure setups, etc.
thanks
Mike

Im not an expert but I dont think a Ball Python would eat another Ball Python... I cant see them doing that but I could be wrong.

But for the agression.. Maybe your snakes are both males and they are testing eachother to see whos stronger or dominante? I dont know?

One of my son's males ate a female not much smaller than he - both are/were '07 hatch, probably CH imports. No feeder rodents in the tank that day, though we do have a small colony across the room. Simply a situation of six baby snakes in a six-foot 125 gallon aquarium. (Yes, less than ideal housing - we're working on that . . .)

From all I've heard, it's pretty rare - but it can happen.

~Bruce

Oh wow so they can eat their own kind... Well with that said I would seperate them. Ya learn something everyday!

The only "aggression" that I have ever seen was a couple of years ago. I had purchased a bunch of babies from someone and they weren't what I had ordered - so while I was trying to work out a return I was keeping the batch together in a sweaterbox. Well long story short - I'd had them for about a week, the seller seemed to fall of the face of the earth so I figured I'd better feed them. I fed one (in separate tub) put it back, fed another and put it back, and so on down the line. Anyway - I'd just put one back in the tub and another grabbed it and began constricting. I grabbed the pair and ran them under the tap and they released - can't say as to whether or not it would have killed or eaten the other or at what point it may have figured out it's mistake.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

balls eating balls is usually a confused feeding state. when things smell like food (rodents) and they move, they make enticing targets, whether it is a mouse, your finger, your kid sister, or another snake in the same enclosure.

if you want to move forward with your husbandry, you have to stop with the anthropomorphising. you keep attributing human traits to the animals.

you post about how the snakes "love" each other, are best friends, and are "inseparable". what you are seeing isn't friendship or a boyfriend/girlfriend, you are seeing one animal dominate the other. that is their nature. it isn't a friendly thing, it is a passive aggressive thing.

the dominant animal bullies for the hidespot, the basking spot, and since we keep them in tiny cages, really bullies the entire available world.

your snakes will be fine for a week, even two. but if you continue with the double caging, you WILL run into problems. growth, shedding, feeding, temperament etc.

at some point you will look at your snakes, find one dead (worst case) or find one thriving and the other struggling to stay healthy, really lagging behind in size and general health.

all the "love" they share is very basic dominant behavior. the submissive snake is under constant heightened stress, and it catches up with the animal quickly.

look at your animals as snakes, not buddies, not puppies, not houseplants. do the right thing.

best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

np

first of all i don't appreciate your tone, I am not 12 and i have successfully raised many animals in my life. i am trying to gather real first hand accounts of aggression in BP tankmates, and all i have got so far is a couple of instances where large numbers of snakes were put together and something bad happened. second i never anthropomorphized my snakes. i checked all of my posts and NEVER SAID THEY "LOVED EACH OTHER, WERE BEST FRIENDS, OR WERE INSEPARABLE" SO CUT THAT CRAP OUT!!! They often occupy the same hides or basking spots, and sometimes they don't. they have preferences, one likes water one likes to climb in the vines. they are pets and i will provide the best care i can. If i notice a problem i'll take care of it but all i have gotten so far is grief and generic warnings of vague future problems from a bunch of people who seem to think of these animals as commodities and breed-stock, who stuff them in racks of plastic bins with plastic hides and newspaper bedding, so don't lecture me about taking care of my animals. At the slightest hint that the snakes are not getting along or are under stress i'll separate them in a second. till then keep your snide comments to yourself.
mike

I'm not going to harp on the keeping them together thing - because I've learned that people will do what they are going to do - regardless of the warnings of experienced keepers.

I will say - that a of these things I've seen you post about your snakes that you seem to think cute or endearing activities - are stress actions - until you have the experience to recognize stress related actions - you might want to consider the advice of the more experienced.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Ok then please educate me, what exactly are the "cute and endearing activities" that i have posted about my snakes are "stress actions", related to having two snakes in the same enclosure. obviously there is some stress involved in moving into a new tank, setting it up, getting the temp gradient and humidity right, adjusting the hides, and decorations etc. but what specifically have i posted that would indicate to you that these snakes are under any more stress than any snake less than 10 days into a new enclosure.
thanks
Mike

wow. are you going to post here looking for sympathy when your animals are dying, or are you just going to move on to your next disposable animal?

folks here are TRYING to give your super-beginner posts answers and direction. you need to get a clue and listen more, post less, and provide proper setups. the information is here, it has been given, you just aren't hearing it. get a copy of McCurley's small ball python book. it is a bit more than 10 bucks on the classifieds. follow that husbandry, it has your answers.

actually, i take it all back, because you CAN'T possibly be serious. you are goofing on folks in the forum, right?

again, best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

you are totally right, just had some rubber snakes lying around and took some snapshots in a friends gecko tank. maybe some day i can get a real snake and be all cool and condescending like you

dude, i want you to do BETTER with your animals. it isn't about YOU, it is about your snakes, quit whining. nobody is condescending to you, i am just trying to encourage you to look at your SNAKES (not your buddies) and give them the best possible setup. not a pet store setup, not a breeding setup, not a death trap, not a stress factory, just a good solid setup with great temps, great hides, etc.

you are not the first new keeper to come on the forum looking for answers and stumbling their way to a stressful setup. you won't be the last.

the answers you are looking for have been GIVEN. however, like tosha says, some folks just don't want to hear it, and they want to "discover" these mistakes on their own. so whatever, do your own thing, feel "empowered" by those that post and tell you to ignore anything other than what you want to hear.

do your own thing, best of luck, sorry your feelings got hurt, i am not trying to jab at your hurt hole.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

mike

i'm not lookin' to get into someone elses situation here. i have nothing to gain either way.

i find myself moved to point out that robyn was offering information based on tried and tested experience. robyn is one of the reasons this forum blows the piss outta lots of other forums on kingsnake. this place is crawling with dumpsterloads of experience, freely given, by people who care about our critters. no need to get offended, just take it for what it's worth.

and, he did read some of the things you claim you never said.
we don't have to scroll very far down to see some of those words.

lotsa luck, we all need that. and remember, YOU came HERE seeking input, nobody hunted you down with a quiver of unsolicited advice.

not intending to offend,
ck

yeah your right i did miss one from a previous post. To Wit:

" i know 2 snakes in an enclosure is "bad" but these two are almost inseparable. see my post on ball python aggression, no replies so far, only the one story about the guy who had 6 snakes in an enclosure and had one eaten. so right now i'm not too worried . also I have a 40 long coming in, so i can divide it into 2 "rooms if needed ".....

to clarify. at that time my temps were not quite right (a little too cool) and according to what i have read sometimes snakes will coil up together if they are cold.

inseparable? just plain fact they were always together, while basking, in a hide etc.

i have a new tank coming in RTFP! i can separate if necessary. or divide the tank into two with a sheet of opaque plexiglass.

according to further research most aggression happens when you have 2 males who have reached sexual maturity housed together, since i don't know the sex of my snakes, and sexual maturity is at least a year away i have some time.
any further thoughts?
mike

Just do what ever you want. You have had quality responses here from good people and you just don't want to hear it.

"...generic warnings of vague future problems from a bunch of people who seem to think of these animals as commodities and breed-stock, who stuff them in racks of plastic bins with plastic hides and newspaper bedding, so don't lecture me about taking care of my animals."
>>mike

So now we should be lectured on how not to keep them? (I use plastic bins/hides/newpaper.)

Do some more research and I think you will find that the reason alot of keep our Regius the way we do is because they THRIVE under these conditions...So don't knock it until you try it.As alot of us have arrived at these methods long after being a beginner.

Keep reading...Go back through the archives as well.(That's why they are there.)

good luck
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Charles Glaspie

Ball Pythons are NOT aggressive. It's why they make a good pet. Unless you get two sexually mature adult males together, which you've already stated. The only other time you might have problems with getting bit, or them biting each other, is at feeding time. Unless you seperate them to feed you risk the smell of the prey item on one snake causing the other to bite and wrap. Or if you hand feed, as opposed to using tongs, your hand will put out a bigger heat signature and likely be mistaken for food. Other than that they're a pretty boring snake

Quig

I know you've read all this in here already. I just gathered it all together in one post.
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

bless you

Obviously I'm WAY behind the 8 ball on this one but.. Eesh..
It looks to me like someone was looking for info -- not "how to" but "WHY not to.." & I'm certain if he had found significant reason to change his ways, he would have taken it as such.
Doesn't sound like he was out to cause trouble, to me. Not that I agree/disagree with anything anyone has said but.. no need to jump down the man's throat.