Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone!

I'm hoping to take the plunge sometime this year, and attempt to breed, and hatch my first clutch of neonates. Eventually, I would like to get into breeding chondros, but that's a very long ways off (although I currently own one, whom I adore).

So in the meantime, I would like to try my hand at breeding a few types of less expensive species. Ones that mature relatively quickly or are easy to find are great, but I'd be willing to try almost anything. Ratsnakes are one of my main interests, so I figured I'd check in here to get folks' opinions. I would consider both North American and Asian ratsnakes, but I have to admit I find the Asian species more interesting as whole.

Can anyone give any recommendations for a first-time breeder to tackle? Marketability is not as much of a concern as my probability for success as a first-timer. I'm a very attentive keeper and a careful record-keeper, so I'd be interested in suggestions ranging from "rank beginner/foolproof" to "advanced beginner" categories.

Thanks a bunch!!!

I do not think there is any thing wrong with trying to breed chondros first. Thanks to the internet and literature out there, I think if you put your mind and time into it, you can do it. The first snakes I ever breed were T. macrops. A verry delecate tree viper. I just found out what their environment was and then tried to duplicate it. Rainy season, heat , and light. But if you like Asian tree dwelling green snakes that are not too expensive Red tail reen ratsnakes. They will give you a real run for your money. Get good gloves and a hook. Also radiated ratsnakes are fairly inexpensive. They are pretty and can be fiesty. I love arboreal snakes too and have a cool jungle carpet python. They are less expnsive than chondros. Infact there are a few nice adult breeding pair on the classifieds now. But remember If you have an interest in something stick with it and give it 100% effort. Breeding ratsnakes is nothing like breeding chondros. All snakes are cool, and living creatures. They are only expensive because of human beings. Truthfully the life a chondro is equal to a gartersnake. Priceless. Good luck

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!! The ratsnakes you mentioned are good suggestions - I was looking at the red-tails as well as trinkets and coxi (a little more expensive but still reasonable).

I would love to jump right into breeding chondros, and I've done a lot of reading on the subject, but I would like to prove to myself (and my husband!) that I am capable of handling the incubator and other equipment as well as starting neonates successfully (among everything else). Also, I want to make sure this is something I'll truly enjoy before dropping several grand on chondros.

"All snakes are cool, and living creatures. They are only expensive because of human beings. Truthfully the life a chondro is equal to a gartersnake. Priceless."

AWESOME quote, and so true!! Thank you for the inspiring words.

As species for a N. A. beginner I'd suggest an Emory's ratsnake. Large eggs, easy everything, inexpensive. Also, if you don't mind a bit larger species, I think a Baird's rat would be great; or an even larger snake would be any "obsoletus," like black rat or yellow, etc.

As a species for Asian beginner I'd go for a Russian ratsnake, Elaphe schrencki, or a Dione's ratsnake, Elaphe dione. Russians get much larger, but are easy to care for and beautiful babies. Dione's are smaller and even easier than corns. If you want a bit more of a challenge, you could go for any of the beauty snakes, Orthriophis taeniurus, which get quite large and can be a little bit of a handful sometimes.

Good luck with your choices...Terry

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Ratsnake Foundation

"Marketability is not as much of a concern as my probability for success as a first-timer. I'm a very attentive keeper and a careful record-keeper, so I'd be interested in suggestions ranging from "rank beginner/foolproof" to "advanced beginner" categories."

If you're looking for "foolproof" the obvious choice is the corn snake. They are difficult to NOT breed and are very good for the first-timer's ego! If well-fed, females can breed at 18 mos to 2 years and I've had males breed at 9 months and yield 100% fertile clutches. They are also fairly forgiving of sub-optimal conditions and tend to be great feeders, docile and come in a wide range of attractive color and pattern morphs.

Just my opinion.
Ophidiophile Farms

I agree with all of these suggestions, but agree most with Terry (ratsnakehaven). For first time American rat snakes, you cannot go wrong with emoryi. They are as easy to breed as corns, and the larger babies are even easier to start feeding.

I also agree with Terry's suggestions for Asians, but he left one out that might be good for a beginner, the Chinese twin-spotted rat snake (Elaphe bimaculata). This is a small, interesting species which is easy to keep, like a corn snake, and does not need much of a cooling period for pre-breeding conditioning, and can maybe go without. They are fast and somewhat nervous little snakes though, and have a very powerful musk, which might repel some people. It's just one of their endearing qualities for me, though.

-Toby Brock
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

>>I also agree with Terry's suggestions for Asians, but he left one out that might be good for a beginner, the Chinese twin-spotted rat snake (Elaphe bimaculata). This is a small, interesting species which is easy to keep, like a corn snake, and does not need much of a cooling period for pre-breeding conditioning, and can maybe go without. They are fast and somewhat nervous little snakes though, and have a very powerful musk, which might repel some people. It's just one of their endearing qualities for me, though.
>>
>>-Toby Brock

LOL! That's why I left out the bimacs, Toby. I felt they might be better for a little more experienced keeper, even though I really like them myself, and I know you do too.

How 'bout those bairdi we are discussing in the above strand. I know you keep the Texas Baird's. I think they make a great pet too, if you don't mind a slightly larger snake than most of the species I keep. As far as developing great "pet" species, I think they fall in that category, and they're not as large as the "obsoletus" species.

Regards...TC

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Ratsnake Foundation

>>LOL! That's why I left out the bimacs, Toby. I felt they might be better for a little more experienced keeper, even though I really like them myself, and I know you do too.
>>

I kinda figured that was why you didn't include them, Terry, but I think if the new keeper is not too concerned with disposition (and smell), bimacs are a great first (Asian) snake.

>>How 'bout those bairdi we are discussing in the above strand. I know you keep the Texas Baird's. I think they make a great pet too, if you don't mind a slightly larger snake than most of the species I keep. As far as developing great "pet" species, I think they fall in that category, and they're not as large as the "obsoletus" species.
>>

Yes, I completely agree on that. I love bairdi, and I think that they also make excellent pets. Mine are as docile as the tamest corn snake, and easy to keep in every way. They are very similar to obsoletus, which is another reason that I like them, since I have decided recently to get out of the obsoletus snakes. As you mentioned, they are smaller than obsoletus, and go through an interesting color/pattern change from juvenile to adult. Mine are from stock from the Davis Mountains, and get better looking with every shed. Although they are tame, mine have a very strong feeding response, very much like all of the obsoletus snakes I have ever kept. Feeding time is the only time I have ever been bitten by them, and it was through carelessness.

-Toby

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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

BTW, I forgot to mention that while I was cleaning and getting some new weights this morning, I handled two of my bimacs ('04 female, '05 male), and neither one musked me! They both seem to be nearly as tame as the dione now. The '04 male is a different story though. LOL

-Toby
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

>>BTW, I forgot to mention that while I was cleaning and getting some new weights this morning, I handled two of my bimacs ('04 female, '05 male), and neither one musked me! They both seem to be nearly as tame as the dione now. The '04 male is a different story though. LOL
>>
>>-Toby

Cool! I was working with a few babies this morning and didn't get musked either. Also the bimac babies never bite. Pretty little things. One weighed 26 grams...

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Ratsnake Foundation

>>Cool! I was working with a few babies this morning and didn't get musked either. Also the bimac babies never bite. Pretty little things. One weighed 26 grams...
>>

That's great, Terry! Not biting and tame-ability are good points for baby bimacs, then. Speaking of non-biting babies, I was very surprised by my baby Chinese beauties, which have never bitten me (neither have the adults). My six-month-old emoryi "meahllmorum" are still a little nippy!

-Toby
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

>>That's great, Terry! Not biting and tame-ability are good points for baby bimacs, then. Speaking of non-biting babies, I was very surprised by my baby Chinese beauties, which have never bitten me (neither have the adults). My six-month-old emoryi "meahllmorum" are still a little nippy!
>>
>>-Toby

Yep, we had a good day. But those bimacs are sure small.

Sounds good on the Chinese beauties. Glad they're doing so well for ya'.

My rootbeers are pretty nippy still too. They aren't all that big either, only 30 something grams. Of course, I cooled them for a month.

Won't be long until breeding season. Starting a new season...

TC

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Ratsnake Foundation