Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Mexican Bairds are really different from the Texas forms. Suprisngly you do not see them that often, however with the increased popularity with Bairds I'm sure the interest in these guys will be on the increase to.

I have individuals that can be an orange brown in color to a rather bright yellow.

Bandera Co. Bairds
Scott John Reptiles

Very true, Scott, and I appreciate the fact that some people are keeping certain forms and species going. Even though I like Texas Baird's and will likely be finding them in the wild someday, I like the looks of the Mexican form better and will probably keep them once we move to AZ and I get my new Herp Room set up. I think both the yellowish and the organish forms are great lookers. These make good pet species too, I assume.

Thanks for the pics.

Terry

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Ratsnake Foundation

Love em!

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Todd Hughes

They look so different from the northern Baird's.

Could they be described as a subspecies?

Baird's are great snakes!

John

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

Some do believe that they are a subspecies. They have yet to be classified as such, however.

Even conservatively, they are a separate race, at the very least.

Dusty Rhoads

p.s. This gentleman is from the Chipinque area of Nuevo Leon. We work with two distinct localities of Nuevo Leon Mexican Baird's, and they are spectacular snakes! Ours are documented pure...they've never been outcrossed to any other locality.

Suboc.com

That is a handsome snake. The contrast between the head and body coloration is much more distint.

My guy is also quite the gentleman, with a temperment to make a cornsnake look flighty.

Don't tell that to the rats though!

Thanks again,

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

Dusty, that's a sweet lookin' Mexican... Looks like a red-tailed Baird's..haha!

I tend to like subspecies, and I thought there was a ssp. name for the Mexican form, but I can't come up with anything at the moment.

I'm wondering how big that form gets. Is it about the same as the Texas Baird's, or are they a little smaller? Definitely a cool snake..

Terry

>>Some do believe that they are a subspecies. They have yet to be classified as such, however.
>>
>>Even conservatively, they are a separate race, at the very least.
>>
>>Dusty Rhoads
>>
>>p.s. This gentleman is from the Chipinque area of Nuevo Leon. We work with two distinct localities of Nuevo Leon Mexican Baird's, and they are spectacular snakes! Ours are documented pure...they've never been outcrossed to any other locality.
>>
>>Suboc.com
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Ratsnake Foundation

Hi Terry,

Yeah, that red really crescendos into the tail...really neat. I mean, how much cooler can you get than a maize-yellow snake with a gray or silver head?

That male is a monster, easily huskier than any suboc I presently own. They're probably about the same size as the Texans.

One funny thing about my Baird's...they all buzz their tails when they've got a mouse in their coils, just before eating. My Texans and Mexicans ALL do that, from babies to adults, when I walk past the cage. My subocs and Green Rats really don't do that very often. Neither do the gray-bandeds...in fact, the gray-banded kings are some of the most focused feeders I've ever seen in a snake...very little distracts them once they've grabbed a prey item. You can pick them up, etc. etc.

If there was ever a proposal on naming the "subspecies" of Nuevo Leon bairdi, then I'd love to see that. As far as I know, they haven't.

Here's a female from Galeana, Nuevo Leon:

Cheers!

Dusty Rhoads

Suboc.com

Yep, she's a beauty, Dusty. Definitely like the looks of these guys. I was wondering about the babies though? I'm not sure I've ever seen a baby Mexican. They probably look like the Texas Baird's, but if you could confirm that, that would be nice. I like them as babies almost more than the adults, a fun snake to raise up.

BTW, I did a little research yesterday and found out that my idea of a Mexican subspecies was wrong. I was getting confused with the suboc and it's Mexican ssp, amplinota. Funny how that happens as we get older, eh..haha! In all my years working with ratsnakes I've never kept two, the Baja Rat and the Trans-Pecos. Maybe that will change when we get in our new home in AZ. I'll be going there in April to work on the house a little more and getting it ready.

Cheers, and thanks for the info...TC

>>Hi Terry,
>>
>>Yeah, that red really crescendos into the tail...really neat. I mean, how much cooler can you get than a maize-yellow snake with a gray or silver head?
>>
>>That male is a monster, easily huskier than any suboc I presently own. They're probably about the same size as the Texans.
>>
>>One funny thing about my Baird's...they all buzz their tails when they've got a mouse in their coils, just before eating. My Texans and Mexicans ALL do that, from babies to adults, when I walk past the cage. My subocs and Green Rats really don't do that very often. Neither do the gray-bandeds...in fact, the gray-banded kings are some of the most focused feeders I've ever seen in a snake...very little distracts them once they've grabbed a prey item. You can pick them up, etc. etc.
>>
>>If there was ever a proposal on naming the "subspecies" of Nuevo Leon bairdi, then I'd love to see that. As far as I know, they haven't.
>>
>>Here's a female from Galeana, Nuevo Leon:
>>
>>Cheers!
>>
>>Dusty Rhoads
>>
>>Suboc.com

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Ratsnake Foundation

They resemble the Texans.
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Todd Hughes

Dusty you are so right in saying that these guys are spectacular. As with most Baird's they look nice in photos, but they are more impressive in person. As far as size, from what I have seen in mine they do appear to get as big as the Texas populations and are very docile like the Texas forms are too. It is amazing that they have not received more attention from rat snake keepers...but that may be changing.

Scott John Reptiles

Never been a fan of Mex Bairds much perferring the TX ssp but those are very nice!

Very docile. I have yet to receive a defensive bite from a Baird's (other than a newborn baby perhaps), but I have received an offensive bite from a Baird's. Boy, do these snakes LOVE to eat, and you better get your fingers a good foot-and-a-half away from the offered food. They fly out of that cage like a bat out of H, looking for anything that moves at feeding time.

And I agree. I'm sure their popularity will increase, and there aren't that many pure Mexican Baird's in collections, to begin with.

I think I will always have Baird's. They are such agreeable captives, and they make excellent vivaria subjects too...especially since they love rock walls.

Ciao,

Dusty Rhoads
Suboc.com

>>Very docile. I have yet to receive a defensive bite from a Baird's (other than a newborn baby perhaps), but I have received an offensive bite from a Baird's. Boy, do these snakes LOVE to eat, and you better get your fingers a good foot-and-a-half away from the offered food. They fly out of that cage like a bat out of H, looking for anything that moves at feeding time.
>>

LOL! Yep, I've been snagged a couple times by my bairdi, at feeding time, Dusty. They have an almost identical feeding response to all of the obsoletus snakes I have ever kept.

-Toby Brock
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Gorgeous snake, Scott.

I like the fact that they are very docile, like some of my other pets: corns, Emory's, Dione's Rats. I think that is definitely one of their pluses and should help make them popular in the hobby. Folks might be a little shy, because they might think Baird's get to a large size and might be somewhat nervous/aggressive. Maybe they just could use more exposure like this..haha!

Why they aren't kept more by hobbyists in general is a good question. We have been exploring the question of ratsnake popularity at the RF this past month and a very long and interesting strand was generated on a British forum. There are many reasons why more species aren't kept, but a lot of it boils down to promoting, I think. I think if people learn about an interesting and popular new species many will try it.

Just my 2 centavos... TC

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Ratsnake Foundation

Hey Bairds Rat Snakes Fans.....I too have really not been able to thin my collection down enought to get rid of my Bairds, I really like them, sweet temperments and good feeders. One of the Serpents that just get better with age. Enjoy.....

Below is a snippit of the information obtained on the critter below, hopefully I will get some eggs from her this year bred to an Adam Block offspring...Enjoy!

Ken Diehl
San Antonio

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“Hypo” Bairds Rat (Pantherophis bairdi)Background Information

Per E-mail Coorespondance with Don Soderberg, South Mountain Reptiles (11/1/05):

I have no idea what she could be other than "not normal". I always wondered if she was hypo, but never looked into it. I regret never comparing her shed skin to that of a normal. That might be an indication of hypo. In corns, most hypos shed a clear skin like that of an albino while the non hypos show dark colors. If you could do that, I'd love to know what you come up with. Maybe I don't want to know. lol. Anyway, I have no idea what she might be other than she was much lighter and had faded patterns compared to other Baird's rats.

More Bairds, Adam Block Male......

My Albino Male, hopefully get eggs from a 100% Het. Female this year, need to get a more recent picture...he is better looking now....

OK...I hope I do not get mean spirited e-mails, but here are two other Bairds that I DO NOT OWN, Owner unknown, these are some of the best examples of the Baridi Complex/morphs I have seen....Sorry if the owner of these critters does not approve of my posting them. But I wanted to share!

>>Mexican Bairds are really different from the Texas forms. Suprisngly you do not see them that often, however with the increased popularity with Bairds I'm sure the interest in these guys will be on the increase to.
>>

I love bairdi and those Mexican Baird's are very interesting looking. I may have to get some of those in the future as well.

-Toby Brock
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Me too, Toby. I really can't wait to see what happens this year, they were brumated together in a 40 breeder and spent the entire time together in the same hide, although they have two identical hides.
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Todd Hughes

>>Me too, Toby. I really can't wait to see what happens this year, they were brumated together in a 40 breeder and spent the entire time together in the same hide, although they have two identical hides.
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>>Todd Hughes

That's great, Todd, and sounds very promising! My fingers are crossed for them, and can't wait to see the babies.

-Toby Brock
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The Ratsnake Foundation

Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

While those Mexis are rather interesting, I have to say I am still partial to Bandera Co. bairdi.
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"Not so tough when you're hit from behind with a golf club are ya?"

Wow! Some beautiful Bairds here guys. Here's a couple of mine -


Graham.
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30 Snakes :
Corns, Milks, Kings, American Rats, Asian Rats, Leopard Rat, Texas Long Nosed, Royal, Boa
www.ratsnakefoundation.org

All totally schweet! How 'bout those Bandera pics?!!
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Todd Hughes