Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When you borrow another breeder's boa to breed with yours, how do usually determine the rights to the animals? Do you split them 50/50? Does it make a difference if you are borrowing the male or the female or if they are being bred under yours or their responsibility? I am just wondering what is fair, although I understand it is whatever you work out with the other breeder.

Thanks,

Mat

I think two main factors are where are the animals being bred example, I have a good friend that has problems getting his females to breed so I do it for him. If the two animals are equal value I get a slightly better split. Another factor is value of animals, two years ago the same guy sent me a normal female he had about $100 into, I bred it with my motley male, he got a pair of motleys and a pile of normals, not bad for $100.We have both been happy with the splits so far. Craig

I have a good friend that has problems getting his females to breed so I do it for him.

Craig that is an understatement, Boa breeding ceases to exist in my basement. Its the best of both worlds I get to keep some boas and get babies. Thanks DR. Kade

My pleasure Brad, hope you are available the second week of May to pick up those two litters of boas, they should be outstanding, pastel motleys and arabesque sunglows, keep fingers crossed.

In addition to the other replies, you may want to also factor in things like, what if one of the animals dies? Who pays for the necropsy? Would the borrower pay for the value of the dead animal?
What if the animal gets sick? Who pays for the vet bill and meds? What about time frame - what if the animal gets sick immediately after arrival at the borrowers OR immediately upon return? Or 1 week later? 2 weeks later? 3 months later? What if the female gives a preovulation swell but no ovulation and the male starts oozing from the nostrils?
What sort of time frame is to be agreed upon for the entire loan?
Who pays for shipping (if it's involved)?
Does the borrower pay for feeding costs? WILL the borrower feed?
If you ship the female, do you ship back after ovulation?
What about quarantine periods? Will there be one?
Who gets first pick, and second pick, etc..?
And many other questions.
A LOT of these questions may seem ridiculous, but if you think back over your life, how many times have you made assumptions (or someone made them about you) that turned out to be wrong?
I would recommend a contract and get it all on paper before committing to anything. It's always better to be safe, than sorry.
Best of luck in your endeavors!
jb
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Jonathan Brady
"Sarcasm is angers ugly cousin" -Dr. Buddy Rydell (Jack Nicholson) in "Anger Management".

other party. DO NOT DO IT. I can speak from experience. If you do do it I would pick up all of Jonathan's comments along with several more and write up an enforceable contract. The contract will help keep the friendship is something goes wrong.

Regardless. I'll never send one of my animals to anybody again.

Good luck and be smart about it.

Like others have said, talk over the details with the other party and write up a contract. Business is business, if the other party does not want a contract then do NOT do the loan. IMO the real purpose of the contract is to set down on paper the parameters of the loan so when the time comes to end the loan and split the babies, there is no forgetting of the details.

I have completed one loan and am in the middle of two others.

things you might want to include...

Who provides which specific animal
Where the loan will occur (which party will have both animals together)
Time frame (including quarantine time?)
EXACTLY how babies are to be split including specific selection process. For example one loan I am in is a 50/50 split. Babies will be divided into 4 groups based on visual phenotype and sex. Selection process will be who goes first for each group and alternating until all babies in that group are gone. Yes, that does mean the person who starts picking in a specific group could get one more baby than the other person. Can't divide babies in half. I can't stress enough that this needs to be crystal clear so there are no hard feelings. Of the four groups I go first on two and the other party goes first on the other two. That way we each have the same chance of getting an extra baby or two. Let the boa gods decide how the litter comes out.

What to do with any ODD or defective babies! What if a new morph pops out?

What to do in the case of illness - will be different if the loan is around the corner vs accross the country.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Mat,

I have done a 50/50 split with all my breeding loans this season but at the same time these animals were also generally around the same value. However I am sure some people would change the split depending on values of the animal, for instance. If your putting a Motley male in with an hypo girl, the motley was obviously the more costly of the snake their for imo the person with the motley should be getting a larger percentage of the litter. If you are going to be doing breeding loans, I have a wonderful form you can use....very specific on everything from care, feeding, transportation...you name it, its on the form and who is responsible for it. If you or anyone else would like a copy e-mail me at NixonsBoas@aol.com
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Brandon Nixon

I have received several e-mails asking about the breeding loan contract. If you would like a copy go to my website under links then there will be a hyper link called Breeding Loan Agreement, go there and wala...sorry its now downloadable I was unable to figure out how to make it a downloadable file so it is just images. I tried.
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Brandon Nixon

>>I have received several e-mails asking about the breeding loan contract. If you would like a copy go to my website under links then there will be a hyper link called Breeding Loan Agreement, go there and wala...sorry its now downloadable I was unable to figure out how to make it a downloadable file so it is just images. I tried.
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>>Brandon Nixon
>>

Brandon,

The link does not open...or at least it did not for me.
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Strictly Serpents
Monty Montalbo/Niels Berg
619-602-4908

I have heard this from another person too...guess I still couldnt figure it out...anyway try this.

http://www.constrictorsofeden.com/breedingloanagreement.htm

or see images below.



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Brandon Nixon

>>>>I have received several e-mails asking about the breeding loan contract. If you would like a copy go to my website under links then there will be a hyper link called Breeding Loan Agreement, go there and wala...sorry its now downloadable I was unable to figure out how to make it a downloadable file so it is just images. I tried.
>>>>-----
>>>>Brandon Nixon
>>>>
>>
>>Brandon,
>>
>>The link does not open...or at least it did not for me.
>>-----
>>Strictly Serpents
>>Monty Montalbo/Niels Berg
>>619-602-4908
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Brandon Nixon

I was lucky to have someone take a chance on a breeding loan with me since I was/am a fairly unknown. A hypo harlequin male was sent to breed with my high-pink normal female. I was responsible for housing and feeding the male until ready to ship him back with the babies. We split the litter 50/50. I got first pick of the hypos and he got first pick of the normals, we went back and forth until they were all split up. Luckily the litter was an even 18, 9 hypos and 9 normals. I ended up with 5 hypos and 4 normals. Since it was my female and I needed to get the babies all well-started, etc, this was what we worked out and I felt it was more than fair. We had planned to use the same male on my female albino the next year but I didn’t believe she had enough weight at that time, so I shipped back the male and 9 babies. He paid to ship the male out, I paid to ship them all back. We had not talked about the event of death but if something had happened to the male, I would have felt responsible to pay a fair market value that we would have to agree on. No contract was written because I felt safe in my trust of the other party. I do feel a contract is a good idea in general and I would probably do that in the future just to ensure everyone is completely comfortable with all possible outcomes and situations that may arise.
Good luck!
-April

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

I'm not quite the fan of breeding loans. They can work out for both parties in most cases, but can also become an extreme nightmare. I believe going into a breeding loan things should be 50/50, unless like it was mentioned earlier in this post one has a normal, and one has a Motley. But what does the breeder do if he sends a Motley to the "normals" house and the Motley dies? Should it still be 50/50? A year or so back I sent my prize possession Arabesque male to a known breeders house, in which at the time was my highest priced Boa. Guess what? He passed away in the other breeders facility! Although he could have done the same at my place, I was still left with nothing. Should it be 50/50 in replacing the animal? Before sending an animal or recieveing an animal I believe all bases should be covered, so both parties are on the same page. Just my thoughts!!!