Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I went to a show last week and saw a vendor with a snake marked "female black milk" for $100. I have a pair of 06 black milks and thought this would be a cheap way to make them a trio as well as the fact that this snake was about the same size as my growing pair too. I started asking questions and the vendor told me that it was 3 years old and a proven breeder. He said he was selling it because his male escaped and had no use for her anymore. That made the red flags fly and I said "you mean it's a black king. She looks small for an adult black milk?". He said, "No, there are Mexican black kings and Mexican black milks. And this is a mexican black milk. They are smaller than the other black milks." After hearing that I kept walking, but later started thinking. What was that snake? It did appear to have some very very light redding banding toward the tail, but other than that was jet black. Any thought on what it could have been? Do people hybridize black milks x MBKs??

I agree, the best thing you could have done is to keep walking!

* Black Milks(L.t.gaigeae).... are from the mountain areas around Costa Rica, and Panama.

* Mexican Black Kings(L.g.nigrita).... are from western Sonora, and northwest Sinaloa, Mexico. It intergrades with splendida(Desert Kingsnake) and californiae(California King) in southeastern Arizona, etc...

* Black Kingsnakes(L.t.niger)....are from the southern Ohio area,to southeastern Illinois,south to central Alabama, and into Georgia. It intergrades freely with "holbrooki"(Speckled King) to the west.

If it had some red banding visible still in it's pattern, it could have easily been a stunted "runt" Black Milk(gaigeae)that would not breed for him, so he thought he would dump it on someone that didn't know. Either way, from what he said, he doesn't know what he was talking about.

And as to your question about if anyone breeds a hybrid cross of Black Milk x Mexican Black King,.......if they do, they should be slapped upside the head for it.

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Doug, what are the distinguishing characteristics between adult black milks, and mexican black kings? Sorry if its a dumb question, but I haven't educated myself on them yet.
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Kent

No, not a dumb question at all, in fact, they are fairly hard for many folks to distinguish from one another. Adults put side by side can indeed look VERY similar, but here are just a few of the very distinct differences.

* Black Milksnake....* 19 scale rows at mid-body
* infralabials(lower lip scales) 8-10
* RBR(red body rings)17-22 when visible
* ventral pattern - adults grayish black except the chin is paler
* adult length - up to 60 inches or more

* Mexican Black Kingsnake...* 23-25 scale rows at mid-body
* infralabials 9-10
* ventral pattern - usually solid black, sometimes having a few lighter flecks
* adult size - up to about 40 inches
* usually have a dark skin between the scales
* coloration - sometimes has a brownish coloration, as opposed to the Black Milksnake, usually having a jet-black coloration.

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

And that is that the Black Milksnakes seem to have a light, sometimes golden colored skin between their scales, whereas the Mexican Black King has a darker brown skin between them, and an overal dark brown coloration in comparison.

hope this helps, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks, that does help. But, which snake is that picture you posted?
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Kent

thats a black king he posted.
L8r

Look at the size of that snake relative to the shavings, thats a juvinile snake. If it was a milk at that size it would show a pattern.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Good point. I guess I need to be more observant.
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Kent

When you can snatch the snake egg from my hand, and walk the soiled, wet newspaper without tearing it,........you will be ready to leave the temple,..... oh young one.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I'm 50!
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Kent

Kent, Sorry, I really didn't mean you were a young kid, it just sounded more authentic from "Kung Fu" if I ended it with "oh young one"..LOL!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

No problem. In alot of ways being 50 is better than being 25!

Its funny though, reading these posts, and wondering how old everyone is.
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Kent

I agree,........I'll be 48 in two months!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Doug, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one old enough to remember the Kung Fu series that I believe ran in the mid seventies. I think David Carradine was good for about one or two flashbacks as show.
"Ah Grasshopper, if you can place the rodent on the eastern king's head without getting tagged, you may leave the temple."
Then of course, the young student would ask something like, "but master, I can't even open the eastern kings enclosure without getting tagged, how is this possible?" Then of course, that's when the masters answer would get really deep.
Steve
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"Book ‘em, Danno”

LOL!!!,.......You have the master's quote scenarios down well, those sounded just like what he'd say!

Q.. "But master, is it not true if you wiggle the the deceased rodent slightly, it will get a more violent response from the serpent?

A.. "Ahh, very good Grasshopper, You have learned well,.......for I can "see" the times you didn't use tongs upon your hand by the quiver in you're voice.

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I just followed this thread (Ah yes grasshopper) and was chuckling a long until Doug's last photo. When I saw the photo, I busted up! My wife came in to see what was so funny.
She wasn't impressed. But I'm still laughing over that photo Doug.

Whew, thanks for the laugh.

-Dell

Your welcome Dell!,........I'm glad you enjoyed some of this "Kung Fu" nonsense too!, I was giggling too as I was picturing "the Master", and young "Grasshopper" saying all this stupid stuff about snakes just as they would have on the old TV show.

I like having some fun with stuff now and then!

later buddy!, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"