Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Mike a.k.a mldolan,

I notice you havent been on posting in several days, or just about since you got reprimanded for making your decision to keep your snakes together in the same cage.

You are new to this forum and to keeping Ball Pythons as pets & as a hobby, and it would be a shame if you let others dictate what you can do with your own snakes... Worse yet, it would be an even bigger shame if this were to discourage you (like more than a few others have expressed lately)from keeping and caring for these beautiful animals in a way that is conducive to their needs and also takes into account your own personal situation.

It was obvious to me and many others that you were making more than just a casual effort to care for your snakes. I personally thought you were doing a really good job, especially considering you just started keeping Ball Pythons. Another thing that should be noted is that many people use terms of affection or personalization when refering to their snakes, and while I really did not see where you did this very much at all, this is not something for which anybody should be made to feel ashamed or uncomfortable about doing in the first place.

Your best bet is to participate in this forum as much as you'd like while following the TOS. No one on here has anymore right to participate than anyone else. I would also recommend that you consider the obtrusive types for what they are and remember these people when it is time for you and your friends to make purchases and add to you collection.

Best wishes

It has taken me several years to become comfortable here.

There is definatly a different tone. When i first joined kingsnake- back in like... 9th... 10th grade--- I was the newbie- and i was torn up, chewed up, and spit back out--- after the bruises healed, I took the advice given- and had beautiful, happy, healthy snakes.

I later asked other questions- and stopped coming here for nearly a year.... Then the rescue got going faster and I needed to reach out to the reptile community again- for more opinions-- same thing again-- I asked the wrong question and got the "you should research that animal before you get it" -- I was treated like a 7 year old...

Now, i'm much older and have MUCH thicker skin-- There are several people here who do not like me- and thats fine. there are people here such as HH, and several others that have had helpful info, and honest concerns and questions- mostly happened in the burm. forums-- they were kind to me, and I could tell a very different tone was present.

I honestly feel that it can be very hard for new people to come here-- while everyone tries to greet new comers with open arms, it certainly does not always feel that way-- I was in that spot once and I remember-- VERY well.

I have since done LOADS more research, i'm more experienced, and now feel that, even though i have questions about things and i ask the 'experts'-- I know enough to be able to give good advice in many situations.

anyway-- I now feel like i'm one of the group- people treat me with respect, and before (back in high school), i certainly did not feel that way....

I know that was a lot-- but it was just an observation and response to "another one gone" .... very true in many cases...

but, nobody can learn, if they don't want to --- its all in how the advice is presented, as well as how it is recieved -- many people are not ready to hear that they are not doing thier animals right and it can be rather offensive... like a slap in the face with a dirty rag...

just my thouhts... all of them... lol

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

yeah the drama was kind getting to me, its funny. this place kinda reminds me of the movie "Best in Show" with Christopher Guest. i've been hanging out on some other forums, but they are not as active as this one. so i log in from time to time just to see what's going on. but for the time being i'm not going to post. I am setting up a couple new tanks but not sure what i'm going to do with them yet.
glad to know someone noticed i was gone.
se ya around
Mike

Hey Mike, i just wanted to tell you something.

I've learned that snakes don't experience emotions like we do, and also that their minds work differently than ours do, but that doesn't stop me from thinking the way I do.

I know that snakes won't "love" us, but i find it entertaining, and a comfort, to pretend that they do. I find it amusing to think of them as my "buddy", and to think that they enjoy my company. I recognize that this is not the truth, and i treat them as such, HOWEVER, i do love them, and enjoy their company, and i find it easier to do so if you think that they do too. Living in a fantasy world doesn't have to blind you to the real world. I did see the posts where you anthropomorphizing them, but i dont care. Go right ahead saying whatever you want about them, just as long as you have in the back of your mind what is really going on.

Have fun.
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-Jacob

Why do people say .02 cents??? So, what, your opinion is only worth a 50th of a cent?

That was a very nice gesture Zefdin, I'm with you on this one brother, the vast majority are begining hobbiest, exploring, learning as they go, and trying to enjoy. The minority are the Pro's having a pissing contest, don't forget who puts food on your table...the beginning hobbiest. Good luck with your snakes Mldolan and keep your excitement. The rules are: there are no rules, only guidlines. The smartest people on this planet continually ask lots of questions, the dumb ones already know everything.
Jeff
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Upon catching her breath she took a deep gulp and said,"you certainly have been blessed with an impressive set of regius's"
1.0 pastel Python regius
0.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
0.2 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
1.4 Kinosternon baurii
1.0 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.1 Ambystoma tigrinum
1.1 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.1 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
1.1 heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus

are you guys serious? are you really that sensitive? is this forum about you? (no) me? (no) or is it about the snakes? (yes)

if the "Pros" didn't care, they wouldn't be here, YEAR AFTER YEAR, helping beginner after beginner learn the ropes and become great keepers.

oh wait a minute, most "Pros" AREN'T here, they aren't interested in being baited all the time by the haters that troll here. these forums have driven LOTS of breeders away. why should they put up with it?

some of us, on the other hand, bust our butts day after day, year after year, to provide folks with the BEST possible chance of success. i check the forum every day, to see if there is something i can contribute to. i have learned a lot of hard lessons over the last 15 years of breeding, i work hard to help others avoid those hard lessons.

there are LOTS of other forums with posts like "what should i name my new snake? is 'Squeezy' good?"

that is not what this forum is about. it is about husbandry, breeding, success, and how to get back on track after stumbling. it is about weeding out the good info from the bad. it is about the animals. at least, most of the time it is.

i don't come here to pick a fight, and yet a few "smart marks" insist on making snide remarks because i didn't put enough "pretty pleases" in my responses to a newbie with a potentially disastrous setup.

have you seen our site? it would take hours to read all the info there. i have worked hundreds of hours to provide an info packed FAQ to get folks started on the right foot, or recover to the best foot. we have detailed caresheets, articles we wrote for Reptiles, we work very hard to SUPPORT not just the hobby, but the individual keeper.

i spend part of every single day helping folks by email and phone, folks that DID NOT buy an animal from me, but they contact us anyway, because we do indeed know what we are doing, and we are glad to share that information. i spend time, energy, and emotion helping keepers get their animals back on the right track, because the source that sold them the animals has no interest in that.

zefdin? who is that? i don't know any zefdin. yet he stalks and baits me here on the forum. is he one of those "big breeder" hating folks? apparently so. why does he have beef with PE? i have no idea. does he really see the mldolan posts and BELIEVE HIMSELF when he says "hey kid, you're doing fine."?

zefdin really doesn't want him to get advice from PE? or especially get an animal from us? wow.

mldolans BEST move would be to get his animal from a reputable breeder, and take their professional guidance and advice on setups. don't get it from PE, fine. but get your animal from a pet store, with horrible setup advice, and this is where you end up, in one confused state, with tender feelings. get your animal from a great breeder (there are plenty, check the forum sponsors) and get the support and guidance you need.

and even now, if you care about the ANIMALS, give me a call directly and i would be happy to spend all the time necessary to get your setup, strategy and husbandry, back on the right track. i don't care if the animal is not a PE animal, i am sick and tired of disposable animals, there is no point in making two more. those two mldolan balls can ABSOLUTELY be turned into spectacular, healthy adults. but only with the right setup and husbandry, not if they are ignored while the keeper seeks condolences from other bitter forum members, or if the keeper runs away to the AOL "Squeezy Ball" chat.

we breed reptiles because we have a PASSION for reptiles. how about you?

a few negative posts with teary eyes aren't going to drive me away from the forums. i will be back tomorrow, next week, and next year, to continue to give the same support, whether it is step one beginner or specific detail on ultrasounds, and we will continue to help push the hobby forward. others will come back to bait those that they "don't like", apparently to amuse themselves throughout the afternoon. it isn't new, or unique, and neither is a "zefdin".

let's get the focus back to the animals.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

amen!
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Tosha
JET Pythons

I disagree.....whenever possible buy your reptiles from Reptile speciality pet stores. Take care and good luck to all this breeding season. Andrew Potts

we sell TO the pet stores.....

same snake......200% more cost.....

not many stores actually breed their own........( some do but they aren't just stores )......

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I don't know about the 200% in price difference. Again if you have the abilty to buy from a local reptile speciality pet store buy from them versus a breeder. Take care and wish everyone a great breeding season. Andrew Potts

what makes a specialty store so much better than getting the animal directly from the breeder. who do you think that the stores get their animals from thin air. no they contact breeders most of them probably contact BIG BREEDERS to make purchases in lot amounts. and larger breeders alow for more variety of animals to be purchased from and at regular intervals to keep the cages full at the specialty shops.nobody wants to walk into an empyt store. breeder treat the babies with great care in the same place where their parents are kept happy and health. or they wouldnt have babies to sell. so you may be able to stand in the pet shop and talk to someone making min wage selling snakes and supplies. simple fact the more $$ in sales made in any store the more hours the owner is willing to pay employees to work. breeders have web pages set up with care sheets links to web forms they post their email address. so it may take some time for them to reply they have animals to take care of and lives to live themselves. breeder care about their animals. i purchased my snakes from med to big breeder. and have had great customer service. i got a phone call from one breeder who got the delivery confermation. i was still staring like a kid in a candy store trying to put it away it has been stressed out enough today. big breeders would not be big if they didnt know how to care for their customers.

keep up all the good coments to the nubs last thing everyone should do is be too hard and a nube and scare them away think about the animal that they are taking care of. if they are asking questions rember they want to do what is best for their animal. just rember how you were the first time you purchased a ball python did you know everything

yea.....some get 300% increases in price

.......store here......"World's Largest Pet Store".....

they buy from lists from dealers also ....not sure who all,,, but dealers are importers also....and importers get stuff that was imported,,,as in wild caught..as in not aclimated and not really going to be friendly and like the captive world......
and raped and stolen from nature.....?......

......anyways.....

buy anywhere you all like........the more they die ,,,the more we sell.......

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Let me try this one more time. For those who are into reptiles, whenever possible buy from an established reptile speciality pet store. In the long term you will find that a local established reptile speciality pet store will fulfill your needs to a much greater extent than a breeder can. Also I would like to say that the MAJORITY of established reptile speciality pet stores will price their animals to make themselves competitive with the breeders. Truth be said though, the biggest reason to spend your hard earned money on your reptile addiction with a reptile speciality pet store - even if you have to spend a little more money - is VISABILITY. Considering all the bad press pythons and boas have been getting visibility is paramount to our industry. Where do we get more visibility from..? A breeder(large or small) whom is unknown to the local population and they have no idea he has the animals unless he does close encounter shows at schools and library's or a reptile speciality pet store on a main roadway with a huge sign that says REPTILES and anyone can go and touch these wonderful animals 7 days a week from sun up to sun down. Wow that was really long winded of me but I think you get the point. Wish everyone a tremendous breeding season and the upcoming baby season. Yahoooooooo. Baby's.......Yahoooooo! Take care. Andrew Potts

In all honesty there are the good and bad in all forms.

There are big and small breeders that won't, or are extremely slow in returning emails, are awful at customer service, etc. And some that are excellent on their customer support and follow up.

As well there are some excellent reptile specialty stores and there are some I have actually cried after having been in.

There are some breeders that hide deadly virus' running through their collection - there are some reptile stores that hide that they have IBD killing off their pythons.

There are some wonderful breeders that will never forget your name and the day your snake was hatch - same goes for reptile stores.

It's give and take in this industry - if you are a buyer you do your homework first. As an industry we seem to lack the will to encourage education first.

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Tosha
JET Pythons

Potts, step down off your soap box now please.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Well if that's not a kick in the gut. Ok let me try one more time. This has nothing to do with quality of animals or quality of service, I'm presuming it's top notch from both the breeder and the reptile speciality pet store. My point is the retail reptile store has a bigger visual impact with-in the community than a private breeder does. I might be wrong but I don't think there's a single breeder who has a huge sign attached to his/her house advertising reptiles. Most breeders I know keep it a secret from those that live around them. On the other hand a retail store will have a big sign prompting those who can see it to come to see what all the hubbub is about. To me it's just about getting as much exposure as possible and in my mind retail reptile stores offer far more exposure than private breeders. Again this not a dig at breeders. In closing I'll be honest that I'm quite vexed over the outright repudiation of my comments, as if some take my words as a slight against them. That is the furthest thing from my mind. Remember we as a industry is under fire from those who know naught but the power they possess is far reaching and most often crushing. I'm afraid the hundreds or maybe thousands of advanced hobbyist are not going to stave off the man. We are going to need the help of the tens of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands who only have the one or two reptiles and aren't addicted like us. Oh well take care. Andrew Potts