Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If so could you please post some pics?
Thanks Andy
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Not to be funny, but have YOU actually heard of this name?

If so, where?,....I'm thinking it's just a name some individual dreamed up to market his/her corns, and is probably some morph already established in the hobby, or maybe a slight variation of morph already in the hobby.

I have to raise my eyebrows about this one.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I read on another forum where sunflower corn was a suggested name for the Ultra ambers. That as far as i know is the only mention of them.
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Arlon Delorge
Classic Constrictors

>>I read on another forum where sunflower corn was a suggested name for the Ultra ambers. That as far as i know is the only mention of them.
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>>Arlon Delorge
>>Classic Constrictors

Ultra ambers? As in animals triple homozygous for ultra, hypo, and caramel? I didn't think there would be enough of those in existence to warrant a unique name.

...or did they really mean ultra caramels?
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

KJ, do you know who decides official names for new cornsnake morphs? I always wondered that.
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South Texas Herps

>>KJ, do you know who decides official names for new cornsnake morphs? I always wondered that.

Well, that depends on which CLIQUE you ask.....lol. Aren't you supposed to be at a show?
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KJUN Snakehaven

I thought it was that group of 14 yr. olds on that other forum... you know, the ones that own fluffy, corny, snakey and I forget the name of their last snake. LOL.

Sorry, Just had to post that since there seems to be so many people (or a certain clique) trying to name other peoples morphs... I bet this post will get deleted.
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www.StrangeCargoExotics.com

>>I thought it was that group of 14 yr. olds on that other forum... you know, the ones that own fluffy, corny, snakey and I forget the name of their last snake. LOL.
>>
>>Sorry, Just had to post that since there seems to be so many people (or a certain clique) trying to name other peoples morphs... I bet this post will get deleted.
>>-----

Now, don't be too hard on people naming their snakes.
I'm far from 14 and name mine...lol

BUT, I definitely understand your second paragraph.
I have bumped heads withe "corn gods" on quite a few occaisions.

and yes this just may get deleted..
so lets bring it back on topic to see what happens.
Never heard of the snake mentioned...wonder if they might have Sunglow confused as Sunflower?

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

>>>>The picture wasn't to represent a sunglow it is obviously an anery
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

LOL- guess you caught the sarcasm.

I fully agree- if you "create it", you have all the power in the world to name it whatever you like...in the end was your your effort/investment in time, cagespace, money, etc. over multiple generations that went into perfecting the line.

I haven't heard the name sunflower before but then again, Ultra Ambers are pretty darn rare... I've only seen them offered a few times for sale in the past (under the name Ultra Amber)- I thought they were a VERY attractive snakes... almost like a golddust but with a somewhat bolder/more noticeable sadddle border coloration. I kinda think it sounds nice and fitting: Sunflower, but then again, it's up to the person who first hatched them... not me...

Graham
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www.StrangeCargoExotics.com

I have seen ultra caramels for sale - look VERY similar to ambers...but I doubt if a true ultra amber (doubly hypo) has ever been posted for sale in a classifieds.

Excuse, GSC and mike - they are teasing me about a private joke....and my plan to end up in "corn hell" if it required following the corn gods and their prophets....lol
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KJUN Snakehaven

After reading all the threads so far on this, I have to wonder what's so bad with the already very descriptive name "Ultra Amber"?. It's strait to the point, and there's no guess work or confusion. But then again, there are a lot of people that like to re-invent the "wheel" so to speak..LOL!

But in the end, it's like the other's already mentioned, whatever name becomes popular and is used more often. I personally like the name "Ultra Amber", and think it's simple and more fitting, but then again, why keep things simple and descriptive?..LOL!......oh well.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

>>After reading all the threads so far on this, I have to wonder what's so bad with the already very descriptive name "Ultra Amber"?. It's strait to the point, and there's no guess work or confusion.

No, it is the point I keep harping on. An amber is a hypoA caramel. An ultra amber should be a hypoA caramel ULTRA corn, but most people mean an ultra caramel.

The name, if they mean an ultra caramel, IS very, very misleading. The first time I saw that, I was in a mixed (virtual) group of small and larger breeders/keepers. Everyone was trying to bounce around what the seller REALLY meant. Nobody was sure.

The name REALLY means a triple homozygous animal, but none of the sellers I KNEW selling them seemed to mean that. Confusing AND misrepresentation. Just call the darn thing an ultra caramel!!! THAT lacks confusion. Even an "ultra goldust" would be less confusing in this case even though that name makes little genetic sense.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

Then as you mentioned, "Ultra Caramel" would be a good fitting name. I'm all for keeping things descriptive, and to the point, as long as the name "flows" off the tongue without too much difficulty(which I think it does), so now with the name switched over to what it ACTUALLY is now(LOL), it seems pretty good to me.

take care, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

KJ- Maybe the problem is that the ultra gene is a form of hypomelanism.... most people think of Amber corns as "Hypo Carmels"... hence the name "Ultra Ambers" (since it's the "hypo" form of a Caramel).

I know your point (and fully agree with ya)...an Amber corn is a HypoA Caramel... other combinations need their own name to prevent confusion to prevent future problems when peopel try to breed "Ultra Ambers" together (if different forms of hypo were used to create the morph, then end up with a mess-especially if you didn't know which form of hypo was used in the Ultra Amber you owned).

There are so many hypo genes: HypoA, Lava, Christmas, Strawberry, Ultra, sunkissed, etc. ...maybe people are just overlooking that fact..

What would you call a Strawberry Caramel... or a Christmas Caramel... I guess it would NOT be correct to refer to them as Strawberry Ambers and/or Christmas Ambers..

Of course the term "Christmas" is a problem in itself since it was first used to describe "Pink & Green Snow Corns"..later to be utilized on the insular South Carolina corns that exhibited a red on redish coloration with a bronze"ish" (streaching the mind to say "Green" coloration)...but that a whole new thread.

Sorry for the long post- probably just confused everyone more.
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www.StrangeCargoExotics.com

I need to stand corrected... I was wrong in my above post. The ultra gene is NOT a form of hypomelanism (like I was claiming)...It's a hypo "mimmic"... guess that throws a wrench in my theory.

Happy Herpin'

Graham
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www.StrangeCargoExotics.com

>>I need to stand corrected... I was wrong in my above post. The ultra gene is NOT a form of hypomelanism (like I was claiming)...It's a hypo "mimmic"...

No. If ultra was found first, it would have been called hypomelanism...and everything else might be called "mimics." We have NO PROOF that any of the things we call "hypomelanism" is truly just a reduction in the amount of melanin produced and/or placed in the skin. This phenotype is what we expect that defect to look like, so we ASSUME it is the cause and use that term. Nothing more.

Ultra is as much a "hypo" and is HypoA, or Lava, or strawberry (if it is a new gene), or what people PRETEND the "christmas hypos" are!
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KJUN Snakehaven

I usually just stay out of Ultra discussions because so very few people actually understand the Ultra gene and many have No idea what they are talking about. I'd just rather stay Out of the confussion.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

>>I usually just stay out of Ultra discussions because so very few people actually understand the Ultra gene and many have No idea what they are talking about. I'd just rather stay Out of the confussion.

Heck - don't do that. Jump in and try to EDUCATE them to the best of your ability. besides, you are in one now.
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KJUN Snakehaven

I find it fascinating because a similar gene exists in brooksi called Peanut Butter.

It's allelic with PE albino - and PE albino brooksi is possibly borrowed from Cal King (it's allelic w/ Cal King anyway) which we know is allelic w/ PE albino in corn snakes.

Thus - Ultra in corns is allelic with PB in Brooksi - and both are codom with amel - I think it would be fascinating to find out whether or not they are the same gene from a common ancestor.

I don't have any Ultra genes (I do have a PB gene in my Brooksi - but he's het) and I don't plan on aquiring any corns with the Ultra gene. I do have HypoA in my collection but the hypo I'm most interested in adding in Lava. Maybe a pair of sunkissed from a breeder who has tested their line for stargaze.

But even though I'm not terribly interested in the Ultra gene from a collection POV, I love reading about the gene.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

...a movie about the young-corn-gods?

I think they called it "Children of the Corn" or something like that...

Cheers,

JPD

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

n/p
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

.
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South Texas Herps

that gets picked is the one that most people like and start using. It is determined by whether it catches on or not.
For example...the Z morph has two names going for it (besides Z)...Ashy corns and Cinder. Which ever becomes more popular is probably the one that gets used.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

I like Cinder
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

What would you call a amel blood red with emoryi (creamsicle) influence?
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South Texas Herps

>>What would you call a amel blood red with emoryi (creamsicle) influence?

I would never own a cream hybrid (knowingly), of course. But I know a guy from Texas who would likely call his "Ko-Tex" if he would bother to give that individual snake a name.
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KJUN Snakehaven

that is just Gross. I bet not everyone would get it, though!
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

It is a reference to another post made by someone else on another forum. I couldn't say more here...... and it was just an inside JOKE........

Feel free to accuse me of having a sick sense of humor. It would be an improvement because I'm usually accused of having NO sense of humor.
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

A creamsicle has to be labelled as such somewhere in the name. People need to know there is rat blood in the lineage. Maybe Creamy Blood. Lol.
I kinda remember a conversation about cream/blood mixes and that name popped up before!
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

>>Maybe Creamy Blood. Lol.

That made MY stomach queasy.....lol.
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KJUN Snakehaven

either or is better than both names together.......ewwww
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.2 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
2.2 pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
0.1 hypo pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
1.0 crimson corns
0.2 albino pueblacorns
0.1 striped ghosts
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa

...and Anerythristic Type C. I stick with Type C for now because it was the first name. I hate ashy, and it will never catch on, but it IS the name I use as my second choice since the originator uses it.

PLUS, there is a big difference between the ones being sold as ashy and the ones cold as cinders, and I somethings think they DO need to be separated via different names. I'd actually own an ashy corn!
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KJUN Snakehaven

Yeah, I think its fair that the peorson who discovered the anery C gene (Rich Z) should be able to name it. I liked Z morph, and am not real fond of Ashy, although, if thats what he chose, it should be used.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

just because the two look a little different (and if they are the same exact gene), giving them two different names would just confuse people. Carol Huddleston's miamis look way different than the buck-skin type miamis, but they have the same name, none the less. Miami phase - not to be confussed with Locale.
Anery, and amel Vary greatly from snake to snake. I understand that some amels have line bred names, like sunglow Amels, but it still has Amel in the name. Although, I guess people usually drop Amel in the name Candy Cane.
Maybe thats why I dont try to name corn phases! lol
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

>>just because the two look a little different (and if they are the same exact gene), giving them two different names would just confuse people. Carol Huddleston's miamis look way different than the buck-skin type miamis, but they have the same name, none the less. Miami phase - not to be confussed with Locale.
>>Anery, and amel Vary greatly from snake to snake. I understand that some amels have line bred names, like sunglow Amels, but it still has Amel in the name. Although, I guess people usually drop Amel in the name Candy Cane.
>>Maybe thats why I dont try to name corn phases! lol
>>-----
>>****Misty****
>>

I think Carol's and Rich's basically showed up simultainiously.
may be wrong, though
I also think there may still be some speculation they are different.
Until more testing is done to ensure thier compatability Rich's should still be called the Z morph and Carol's, cinders.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

> should still be called the Z morph and Carol's, cinders.

Rich NEVER called his that nor does he seem to agree with it. He called them Type C and Ashy. Z morph was thrown on his mutation by people who, IMO, had no "right" to name a morph they didn't even own.....lol.

...and Carol has done something to hers to make them VERY different from Rich's line. Not sure what, and I'm not saying anything is WRONG with her's. Still, I'd own one of Rich's, but I'd always wonder about Carols....no matter how upfront everything sure seems to be.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

>>> should still be called the Z morph and Carol's, cinders.
>>
>>Rich NEVER called his that nor does he seem to agree with it. He called them Type C and Ashy. Z morph was thrown on his mutation by people who, IMO, had no "right" to name a morph they didn't even own.....lol.
>>
>>...and Carol has done something to hers to make them VERY different from Rich's line. Not sure what, and I'm not saying anything is WRONG with her's. Still, I'd own one of Rich's, but I'd always wonder about Carols....no matter how upfront everything sure seems to be.
>>
>>KJ
>>-----
>>

I thought Rich called his the Z
I agree, he should be the only one to name his.
If he calls them Type C or ashey then I don't see anyone having the right to name them anything else.
I believe Carol's and Rich's are different versions or "looks" of the same Anery "C" but tests will obviously have to be done to prove that.
I am still pretty sure they showed up separately though so each has the right to name thiers.
I trust Carol as much as Rich or Don or anyone else so I don't doubt hers for a minute.
Carol chose cinder so cinder it should be.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

>>I thought Rich called his the Z

No. The "corn gods" used that name. ARich even wrote once that he didn't know why they called it "Z." Carol switched to Cinder over Z or C because (wait on it...) it was hard to search a forum for those letters. I believe that was Carol that used that reason. Someone did, anyway. Not Rich.

>>I am still pretty sure they showed up separately though so each has the right to name thiers.

Not really. Carol bought a snake from Rich that turned out to be het for what he called the Type C aner back then. It didn't pop up independently. Rich just sold her one het for the trait before he knew it was REALLY something new. This is no different than if you bought a snake from Don Soderberg 4 years ago that turned out to be het for pied-sided today. It wouldn't be a new trait - you just got lucky enough to get a snake HET for that gene before he discovered it as something new.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

>>>>I thought Rich called his the Z
>>
>>No. The "corn gods" used that name. ARich even wrote once that he didn't know why they called it "Z." Carol switched to Cinder over Z or C because (wait on it...) it was hard to search a forum for those letters. I believe that was Carol that used that reason. Someone did, anyway. Not Rich.
>>
>>>>I am still pretty sure they showed up separately though so each has the right to name thiers.
>>
>>Not really. Carol bought a snake from Rich that turned out to be het for what he called the Type C aner back then. It didn't pop up independently. Rich just sold her one het for the trait before he knew it was REALLY something new. This is no different than if you bought a snake from Don Soderberg 4 years ago that turned out to be het for pied-sided today. It wouldn't be a new trait - you just got lucky enough to get a snake HET for that gene before he discovered it as something new.
>>
>>KJ
>>-----

OK thanks for clearing that up.
Then at this time the only name/names anyone should really be using is/are Type C or ashy, the names Rich has used.
But if Carol's came from snakes she got from Rich, I have two questions...Why do hers look so different and why would you trust Rich's but not Carol's?
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

> Why do hers look so different and

That's the question, isn't it? She says she crossed her original het to an SMR Miami. She once said that the Type Cs have such high blotch counts because there is so much south FL blood in them, but that's impossible for the obvious reasons.....lol. That was just a mistake on her part for not understanding the variation in blotch counts of wild cornsnakes. In other words, the whole thing is still a MESS partly do to what has been stated over the last few years.

> why would you trust Rich's but not Carol's?

If it sounded like I didn't trust Carol, the tone was incorrect. I didn't mean to say that. With the difference between hers and Rich's, I'd just own one from Rich's line until the differences are better explained. I don't think that means she (or her line) is untrustworthy - it just means Rich's line is "safer" in my mind. If Rich was seeing the same thing in his line, there would be no difference in my eyes.

It may have nothing to do with Carol at all (which is definitely possible), but I don't like such a LARGE riddle with no answer. Carol's always seemed VERY upfront about everything, so I have ZERO reason to suspect she is hiding something.

That alleviate your concern about my thoughts concerning Carol?
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

If Riches line is contaminated then so is Carol's - but it isn't necessarily the other way around.

Me personally (and just personally - I respect all opinions) - I'm not quite as concerned with purity with non locality lines, so if I wanted to play with that gene, I'd pick one that fancied by taste.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

>>If Riches line is contaminated then so is Carol's - but it isn't necessarily the other way around.

Bingo!
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KJUN Snakehaven

>>>

Thanks KJ

I didn't really read it that you had distrust for Carol as much as questions about her Cinders.
I just wasn't sure why, other then the look.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I recall reading that Carol got her Z morphs when she purchased some snakes from Rich and they turned out to be Hets for Cinder/Z/Ashy, apparently before he knew he had something different.

If thats true, why can't that stuff happen to me? Buy something innocent, normal and get Hets for the newest morph!! LOL
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

>>I recall reading that Carol got her Z morphs when she purchased some snakes from Rich and they turned out to be Hets for Cinder/Z/Ashy, apparently before he knew he had something different.

That's the story I've heards the most often from both of them, too.

>>If thats true, why can't that stuff happen to me? Buy something innocent, normal and get Hets for the newest morph!! LOL

Ohhh, I once sold the first locality anerythristic Kisatchie cornsnake (VERY new morph then) to someone accidentally as a normal Kisatchie. That stuff happens....just not to me, either.....lol.
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KJUN Snakehaven

>>just because the two look a little different

It is more than just the look. If you are curious, email me and I'll point you towards some more info. I can't say much here without potentially violating a TOS. I have NO INTENT of doing that.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

Nope,Can't say I have!But, if they're out there I'd like to see one! Jeff

Thanks all....Some person I met at a pet shop was telling me that they breed and sell sunflower corns, and that they were really high end stuff...lol...I thought it sounded strange but then again....I'm such a green horn to this corn snake arena, I figured I would go ahead and ask. Thanks for the info!

Andy
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I have some really high end Cal Kings.
They have these irregular cream bands on a brownish background.
I call them crop-circle kings.

Really high end.

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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

look at this topic go. Although, it appears that the one question has branched off to multiple topics!! lol
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"