Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey. This is my first post on this site so hello to everyone.
I have a bit of a problem that I aquired on Sunday. My friend called and asked if I wanted her 7' albino/70%granite burm as she was scared to handle her because of her size and she needs to downsize her collection. She has had her since she was only a few weeks old and there has been no problems before. I have handled her on numerous occasions and had her outside and never been bitten. She has been free roaming since Xmas as she broke out her viv and my friend was too scared to put her back in. Her fiance who comes round and her other friend have been handling her too. I picked her up on sunday with no problems. When I got her down to mine, my bro tried to take her out when he came to visit and got bitten and now she hisses so loudly when I go near her. Any help and advice would be very helpful. Thanx.

Couple things. Your new burm, is in a new place. So it is not confident and knows it does not know its surroundings, so its going to be defensive. Burms huff and puff a lot, and if you stay away from it then its doing its job. Most of the time its just a scare tactic. Should stop with time.

Second, of course the snake is going to bite you if you stick your hand in. Burms have a strong feeding response. They see somthing warm come in and thinks food. You need to tap it with somthing, most people use snake hooks, especially since its getting bigger. My Burm did that to me at that size because I reached in to get her water dish. Stupid me. I paid. She let go but it was not her fault, nor was she mean.

Third, your friend needs to get rid of all of their snakes. No one should ever let a snake free roam, if the room is not set up for it. That is just stupid, and could be cause for a problem. This is one of the reasons why our hobby is under attack. People like that getting more then what they can handle and then, oh its to late and then they just give up. Its not so much you take on to much, its the quitters that do not find somone to take it. So, thank your friend for cont to help support the people that do not agree with out hobby.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

aggreed!

Get rid of them all-- if you can't keep it in a secure enclosure--- and then are "afraid to put it back" .... wtf?!?!

This is EXACTLY why this hobby is at risk-- ESPECIALLY for the big kids.

I'm hoping that since now you have it, you can properly house it now and when it is an adult.

Burms are very huffy puffy-- very vocal animals and its working on you-- get a hook-- midwest tongs has a great big hook for like 60$ -- i got one at the arlington show and LOVE it! Good investment!

good luck with her

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Hey Blackadderbazz, welcome to the forum!

Let me start out by saying that the other two members are just as friendly, if not more, than I am, we just take turns in playing "Bad Bart" when a situation in a post strikes a nerve. Ha! Ha! It's actually funny how we unconsciously take turns. I pretty much share their feelings but I don't feel a need for me to add anything other else to it at this time.

From all the circumstances you mentioned it's hard for me to say for sure why your bro got bit other than "because he put his hand in the snake's cage." Ha! But we knew that, huh? (I'm bein' silly, cuttin' up, not tryin' to be a smarty.)

The key to tackling a problem is understanding what that problem is. If the previous owner was scared of the snake, even to the point of not putting it back in it's cage & letting it free-roam (a real no-no), odds are that snake didn't see much of the keeper, didn't see her very often, very little traffic. Now all of the sudden it's in a small cage and thrusted into the spotlight of attention, probably in a fairly high traffic area, or at least a fair amount of traffic from you & other people checking it out. That's like stepping out of bed after a good night's sleep and stepping right into the middle of a 6-lane highway at rush hour. The snake's scared to death and out to defend itself, and rightly so.

First priority is to make the snake comfortable in it's new home. Cover all sides of it's cage if needed, at least all but one side. A hide box would surely help in this case, to make it feel more secure. Keep it in a low traffic area.

Don't handle it or bother it for at least a week. Give it time to settle in. The next priority, as far as I'm concerned, should be feeding it. A few days (2 - 3) after it eats a good meal I would begin to handle it. It should have a full stomach and be fairly content. That will go a long ways towards easing a lot of typical aggression and/or defensiveness, especially eliminating a likely feeding response.

A snake's cage is their domain, it's their territory. They will naturally defend it if they feel threatened. Avoid threatening moves. Like someone already said, use a hook to train the snake to know the difference between handling time & feeding time. Never touch a snake with a hook just before feeding, only before handling or cage maintenance.

No snake hook? No problem. Use a wire coat hanger, an umbrella, or something just to gently stroke the snake a few times on top of the head and a few inches or so down it's neck. Just something to get it's attention without making it feel you're out to harm it. You will eventually need a large hook, though, so begin looking for one.

Once my burms get about 5 - 6ft, or so, I stop reaching into their cage and let them crawl out to me on their own. Once in awhile they'll need prodding to get them to start to move around but mine will always crawl out directly to me when their cage is opened. I've got them trained to come to me so I don't have to go after them. It's nice, safe.

Most snakes calm down once out of their cage. Some burms will always hiss, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will strike/bite. Doesn't mean they won't, either. You'll have to get to know your snake.

If it does hiss or strike when handling don't put it right back into it's cage or set it down unless you feel you're in jeopardy. That can teach them that they'll get their way, and they learn that quick. Keep handling for a few more minutes and try to get it calm & relaxed before you put it back into it's cage.

I feel that the first few handling sessions should be done once a day, every other day, for aprox. 10 minutes or so at a time. You can increase the frequency and handling time as things progress. Handling it too much can stress it out. Some can handle everyday handling while others can't. Learn your snake. Learn to read it's body language and it's actions, reactions.

Hope this helps!

HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

just curious, Mike, but can you handle your Burm two days after feeding? With mine, it depends on the size of the food item, but I find that I have to give him a good 4-5 days at least. I fed him Monday and today I was just trying to pull some soiled paper out of the opposite end of the cage and he's hissin' like he's scaring off the enemy army, know what I mean? Just wondering what others' snakes are like.

Hi Laura!
Yeah, I can handle all of my burmese pythons within minutes after feeding. That even includes the underfed 8ft, 7yr old rescued female. She's the most aggressive feeder I've got but I do have to make sure she's had plenty to eat and not 1/2 a rat shy of a full meal. I don't feed her till she pukes though, there's a fine line that took awhile to find.

One reason why I like feeding smaller prey items versus big ones is it's easier to hit the "full & content" mark and not the "stuffed" or "appetizer" marks. Of course, ease of digestion & less stress on the digestive system is another reason.

Your male could very well be a typical "male". You know, like the husband that eats a good meal and then kicks back in his recliner and huffs & puffs when the wife asks him to take out the garbage. He could be saying, " I'm comfortable, here, leave - me - alone." Hahaha!

I've seen a few people say their burms were like that. I've not kept enough burmese pythons to be able to say whether it's a temperament issue or a feeding issue. And I'm not questioning what you're saying, either. I've had two of my burms since they were neonates, 3 1/2 yrs. One rescued adult for aprox 6 months, and three yearlings (9 months). Prior to that I had an 8 1/2ft burm many moons ago, say.... aprox. 1977 or 78, for a few years.

All I can say is that none of mine have ever been temperamental. I wouldn't even begin to try to say whether I've been really fortunate or if it's something that I do. My 11ft female hisses every now & then when being handled but with her attitude, actions and reactions, it's almost as if it's more of a joyful whistle. So far. Ha! Ha!

The thing about your male is that there's no tellin' what it endured before you got it, and whether or not it has any effect on it's behavior now. Snakes that are only fed and not bothered between meals get used to it. If this is what your male went thru before you got it I feel the temperament issues can be ironed out most of the time. If you hurry up & get out of the other end of the cage, guess what you've just taught him? How to get his way. Of course, your safety comes first, though. Sorry, but I'd rather have you posting, helping out here in the forums than you have a completely docile snake. But I know you're no idgit (idiot).

Take care!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I hear what you're saying. Mine's rather hissy in general, but even tempered so far. I did back off the paper moving at first. Later when he had moved to other side, I started taking out the rest of the paper and he started hissing again. I bumped him lightly on the nose with the hook and just shoved his rear end out of the way. He looked undignified (is that anthropomorphism Ha Ha?) but I just kept going anyway.

The real question is, if your Burm is a light hisser, even when out of the enclosure, and you don't want to put him back until he's calm, when is that? Does that make sense? He's just a hisser and if I put him back while he's hissing, does he think he's 'won'?

> > > "I bumped him lightly on the nose with the hook and just shoved his rear end out of the way."

Laura,
Since I'm fairly familiar with your writing style, the way you say (write) things and what you mean, I didn't take the above comment as literally as it appeared to me. But for the sake of the silent readers I feel a need to make sure they understand a few things.

Literally, the quoted comment is a "corrective" action, one that works with most mammals, animals with higher intelligence than reptiles. I don't believe reptiles understand, and/or react postiively, to this method. I feel that they interpret such actions as aggression towards them, which will only make matters worse. Like I said, I don't think Laura meant it as literally as the comment appears. If this thread wasn't about dealing with aggressive burmese pythons I probably wouldn't have even said anything but I just felt compelled to make sure everyone's aware of the ineffectiveness of corrective action on reptiles.

> > > "The real question is, if your Burm is a light hisser, even when out of the enclosure, and you don't want to put him back until he's calm, when is that?"

This is why it's important to be able to read an animal, to interpret it's body language, hissing, actions, reactions, etc... This comes more natural to some people than others but it's an ability that I feel can be learned by all and it is vital, very vital.

In my previous post I said, "My 11ft female hisses every now & then when being handled but with her attitude, actions and reactions, it's almost as if it's more of a joyful whistle."

She actually hisses every time she's handled, but not with every breath, it's somewhat sporadic. It's not an aggressive hiss like when some snakes inhale deeply and exhale forcefully, it's more of a steady "whistle". The length, duration, of her hisses aren't much different than her normal breathing. There isn't any defensive or aggressive body language along with the hisses.

She hisses when she's crawling around the house while I let her exercise. One time she was at the other end of the hallway crawling back toward the livingroom. She hissed (breathing somewhat loudly) as she was crawling. I stepped into the middle of the hallway admiring her and when she got to where I was she rose up and put her head to my chest, her head being aprox. 4ft off the ground. She was hissing (her style of hissing) as she did this. I put out my hands & arms and she crawled up in them, hissing (whistling?). I was whistling. I was a whistlin' Dixie. Ha! Ha! What a magnificient sight, experience.

> > > "He's just a hisser and if I put him back while he's hissing, does he think he's 'won'?"

Not necessarily. I hope what I just said said above kind of clarifies what I meant. In my other post I was referring to your burm hissing at you while you're doing cage maintenance, plus, you said, "With mine, it depends on the size of the food item, but I find that I have to give him a good 4-5 days at least."

My female has never hissed at me during cage maintenance or specifically for handling it less than 4 - 5 days after feeding. I can't help but feel that my burm hisses for a different reason than your burm does. I don't mean any criticism by that, I'm just trying to get you to see the difference and find out what that difference is. You seem to already see some variation with prey size in relation to it's temperament. If cage maintenance seems to draw some ire, pretend to do some more often, within a safe distance and/or under safe circumstances, of course. Get it used to normal activities with repetitiveness, without being too repetitive (too frequent, to the point of stressing them).

I'm afraid to go back & proofread this, I hope it makes sense to you & everyone else. The jury's still out on whether I sometimes have a hard time of putting my thoughts into words or if I'm just a hillbilly ignoramus. I see ya'll a snickerin' and a noddin' yer heads.

Later!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Thanks very much, Rottenweiler. That was a great help, it pretty much confirmed what I was thinking(still a bit feart of her though,lol) I didna know about the tapping the head thing, Ill try it cheers. My bro came round today and he was helping me transfer her to the larger viv and she was not having it. I put on my leather bike jacket and gloves so I could pick her up, she attacked, although I couldnt feel the bites, so that was cool. My bro did it and she was ok when she came to him and he just put his hand under her head and lifted her out and she was no bother until he took her downstairs she just wanted to roam and got a bit excited, though she never bit. I think she got wind of the dogs, thats why she bit the last guy in my friends house, she was fine until he went downstairs with the dogs.
We put her in the large flat contico tub and she was fine until we went to move her into the viv and she took another hissy and went for me a coupla times, once when I just walked by and when I went to pick her up, again my bro had no problem lifting her, she bit the sleeve butdidnt bother when he lifted her and now shes in the viv and locked,lol. She has calmed down a bit.
I have told my friend the exact same thing you said to me before, that she had too many to handle and she should get rid of a load, she aint got much left now.
Thanks again.

Your welcome. Mike thanks for the buffer. Hahahahah, somtimes we all need filters.

Sounds like you need to just keep doing what your doing. I do not blame you. I hate getting bit and have a red tail boa that bit me for no reason a couple times and now I always wear a sweatshirt and gloves to hold her. I do not play around with her. I just hate getting bit, I hate it. I even asked in here once if I was being chicken, and it came down to no, just being cautious and that was OK. Did I say how much I hate getting bit.

Anyways, good luck and with time she should calm down. The rescue folks in here are the best to talk to seeing is they pri get their fair share of aggressive burms in. At least you care enough to take care of it. So thank you.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

Yikes, I hate getting bit, too. My boa went for my shoulder once. Fortunately it got my shirt and missed the skin. We have a tendency to get lizard bites rather than snake bites around here. I hate snake bites...gives me the shivers.