Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
I seem to remeber that Fox snakes are now might be thought of
being like gopher snakes not rat snakes.
What does everyone think?

Dave

Fox snake is definitely elaphe not pituophis.

Look at the head.

-----
I have more than a few snakes.......

Ive always been of the opinion that Foxsnakes were not really ratsnakes. Morpholgy (*Non* Elaphe looking heads and body structure)and habits are not at all "Ratsnake like" IMO.

Interesting story. My buddy Bob got some baby Black Ratsnake/Kankakee Bullsnake hybrids from the Shed years ago. It was an accidental breeding but he thought they might be interesting. You know what they grew up to be? Six and a half foot long "Foxsnakes" that hissed!

Look at the ranges of each and investigate glaciation in the Midwest. Who knows?

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer

Then again, some of the more current research suggests Pantherophis (Elaphe) and Pituophis should be joined to a single genus.

I keep and breed both gloydi and vulpina and I have to say that morphology and behavior is definately more Pituophis like than Pantherophis. If you like pits, you will like foxes. This is a pic of my gloydi female. That is very interesting about the sayi/obsoleta crosses. Any pics for comparison? Thanks and take care.

Jeremy

SHADE TREE EXOTICS

There is no doubt in my mind that Fox snakes are the LINK between ratsnakes and "pine snakes" (which, of course, would technically include gophers and bulls). Cornsnakes are "as" different from obsoleta-ratsnakes as those are from "pinesnakes." This isn't a new hypothesis by any means, but more and more new data has been supporting it.

Personally, I'd rather see the complex divided into 3 species than all combined into one.
KJ
-----
KJUN Snakehaven

....