Reptile & Amphibian Forums

im sorry if these are stupid questions but what happens when i breed:

1. sider X mojave =?
2. mojave X pastel =?
3. Albino X mojave =?
4. Albino X Pastel =?
5. BEL(mojave) X pastel =?

i get genetics so [bleep]ed up, i think i understand it, then im wrong, so i figured id just ask here.

1. sider X mojave =?

This is a het X het breeding. The spider phenotype has the heterozygous for the spider genotype - it has one mutant copy of the spider gene matched with one normal copy of the spider gene. Heterozygous means an unmatched pair of whatever gene you are talking about. It does not mean hidden gene or half way to something else although it just happens to work out that way with recessives and co-dominants respectively. Likewise, the mojave phenotype is has the heterozygous genotype for the apparently separate mojave gene. With any het X het breeding you get a 25%/25%/25%/25% split of getting the mutant gene from neither parent, getting only from one parent, only from the other parent, or from both.

25% chance normal
25% chance spider (het for the spider mutant gene)
25% chance mojave (het for the mojave mutant gene)
25% chance spider mojave (double het for both).

If the two parents where het for the same gene then the middle two chances would combine to a 50% chance of being het for that gene and the last would be the 25% homozygous mutant.

2. mojave X pastel =?

Again, het X het.

25% chance normal
25% chance mojave (heterozygous for mojave genotype)
25% chance pastel (het pastel genotype)
25% chance pastel mojave (a double het)

3. Albino X mojave =?

This is a homozygous X het breeding so gives a 50/50 split.

50% het albino only
50% het albino mojave (a double het since mojave is a het for its separate mutant gene - if this breeding where homo X het of the same mutation, example albino X het albino, this would be the 50% homozygous mutant).

4. Albino X Pastel =?

Same homozygous X het type breeding

50% chance het albino only
50% chance het albino pastel (a type of double het)

5. BEL(mojave) X pastel =?

Another homozygous X het breeding. A BEL has two mutant copies of the white snake gene. In this case I assume you are indicating a BEL from mojave X mojave which could be written mojave||mojave to indicate a matched pair of mojave mutant versions. If it where a cross line animal like a lesser||mojave the results would be a little different but keeping in mind that they are both mutations of the same gene no offspring could get both lesser and mojave from the same parent.

50% mojave only (heterozygous genotype for the mojave mutation)
50% mojave pastel (a double het)

ok so with the dubble hets, what happens if you breed them togeather? is that not how dreamsicules(albino x piebald) are made? so would i get some kinda spider x mojave mix creation?

wait, i was on the NERD site and i found a page with the spider ball on it and they said that the spider is a dominant gen, and if you click on list of all projects, they have a spider X mojave on there.

and if its a double visual het, what type would they look like?

>>wait, i was on the NERD site and i found a page with the spider ball on it and they said that the spider is a dominant gen, and if you click on list of all projects, they have a spider X mojave on there.
>>
>>and if its a double visual het, what type would they look like?

In order to properly grasp an understanding of designer mutations...The first thing you will have to work on is allel pairs..

Picture a dna strand image(pairs of spheres in a double helix).
Now,each of those spheres stands for an allele,and each pair represents a peticular gene..
If both alleles of said gene are present,then the animal is homozygous for the gene.If only one is present,then the animal is heterozygous for the gene.

heterozygous
. .
. .
. .
* .
. .
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homozygous
. .
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. .
* *
. .
. .

pastels yellowbellys and mojaves are visable hets (therefore they each have one allele of each gene,same as recessive genes with het albino,hypo,clown,etc.)
So the odds are the same whether breeding pastel to pastel or het albino to het albino..25 percent chance per egg of getting a homozygous(both alleles)animal..be it an albino..or super pastel..it's all in the alleles
A mojave spider cross is the same thing..just different alleles with the same 25 percent chance.

..hope this was of some help to you...good luck
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Charles Glaspie

...it was late and i wasn't paying attention to what i had written out..ignore my last post.

The first thing i had to work out is allele pairs..

If both alleles of a gene are present,then the animal is homozygous for the gene.If only one is present,then the animal is heterozygous for the gene.

pastels yellowbellys and mojaves are visable hets (therefore they each have one allele,same as recessive traits with het albino,hypo,clown,etc.)

>> So the odds are the same whether breeding pastel to pastel or het albino to het albino..25 percent chance per egg of getting a homozygous(with both alleles)animal..be it an albino..or super pastel..it's all in the alleles
>> A mojave spider cross is the same thing..just different alleles with the same 25 percent chance.

btw..thanks for the heads up Paul

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Charles Glaspie

so what does the 25% spider mojave ball look like?

>>so what does the 25% spider mojave ball look like?

here you go ...
renaissancereptiles.com/collection/ballpython.shtml#

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Charles Glaspie

>If both alleles of a gene are present,then the animal is homozygous for the gene.If only one is present,then the animal is heterozygous for the gene.

>pastels yellowbellys and mojaves are visable hets (therefore they each have one allele,same as recessive traits with het albino,hypo,clown,etc.)

This does not compute.

A het albino is heterozygous because it has an albino mutant gene paired with a normal gene. The albino mutant gene is one allele, and the normal gene is another allele. That makes two alleles, not one.

A pastel is heterozygous because it has a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene. Again, that makes two alleles, not one. Same for yellowbellies and mojaves.

An albino has two copies of one allele, the albino mutant gene, so it is homozygous albino. A super pastel has two copies of one allele, the pastel mutant gene, so it is homozygous pastel. A normal snake has two copies of the normal gene where the albino has albino mutant genes. The normal snake also has two copies of the normal gene where the super pastel has pastel mutant genes. This makes the normal snake homozygous normal at these locations in its genome.

Paul Hollander

>>>If both mutant alleles of a gene are present,then the animal is homozygous for the gene.If only one mutant allele is present(and one normal allele),then the animal is heterozygous for the gene.
>>
>>>pastels yellowbellys and mojaves are visable hets (therefore they each have one mutant allele(and one norma allele),same as recessive traits with het albino,hypo,clown,etc.)
>>
>>This does not compute.
>>
>>A het albino is heterozygous because it has an albino mutant gene paired with a normal gene. The albino mutant gene is one allele, and the normal gene is another allele. That makes two alleles, not one.
>>
>>A pastel is heterozygous because it has a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene. Again, that makes two alleles, not one. Same for yellowbellies and mojaves.
>>
>>An albino has two copies of one allele, the albino mutant gene, so it is homozygous albino. A super pastel has two copies of one allele, the pastel mutant gene, so it is homozygous pastel. A normal snake has two copies of the normal gene where the albino has albino mutant genes. The normal snake also has two copies of the normal gene where the super pastel has pastel mutant genes. This makes the normal snake homozygous normal at these locations in its genome.
>>
>>Paul Hollander

ok..i do now see the communication error on my part here,by not including the normal alleles involved in the situation.

If both(mutant)alleles of a gene are present,then the animal is homozygous for the gene.If only one(mutant)allele is present(and one normal allele),then the animal is heterozygous for the gene.

Pastels yellowbellys and mojaves are visable hets..Therefore they each have one mutant allele(and one normal allele),same as recessive traits with het albino,hypo,clown,etc.

Is that what your observing here Paul?
(My omission of the normal alleles due to my thinking in a goal orientation.)
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Charles Glaspie

Okay, we are getting on the same page. Yes, you always have to include the normal gene as an allele, when it is present. The biggest problem now is that it is possible to have more than one mutant gene in a list of alleles. For example, mojave x lesser platinum can produce blue-eyed lucies. One possible explanation for this is that the mojave mutant gene and the lesser mutant gene have the same location in the genome and are alleles. There are three alleles in the list of alleles, but any given ball python has only two. So different ball pythons could have two normal alleles (homozygous), two lesser platinum alleles (homozygous), two mojave alleles (homozygous), a normal allele and a lesser platinum allele (heterozygous), a normal allele and a mojave allele (heterozygous), or a lesser platinum allele and a mojave allele (heterozygous).

> If both(mutant)alleles of a gene are present,then the animal is homozygous for the gene.

This definition of homozygous leaves out the pair of normal genes. And the lesser platinum//mojave gene pair could be included under "both (mutant) alleles".

So I like a definition like this: an animal is homozygous if it has two copies of the same allele at a locus.

>If only one(mutant)allele is present(and one normal allele),then the animal is heterozygous for the gene.

This is true as far as it goes, but it leaves out the the lesser platinum//mojave gene pair.

So I like a definition like this: an animal is heterozygous if it has two different alleles at a locus.

The main trouble with these definitions is that "allele" and "locus" need to be defined. It can be tricky getting over exactly what we mean.

Paul Hollander