Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok - I've never posted here, but I could use some advice.

I'll ask my questions as briefly as possible, but the background is also below.
- Is a juvenile black rat snake about 18" long, black with a white colored belly with an occasional speck of white throughout the black?
- Will a juvenile black rat snake rattle it's tail and strike at you?
- Will a juvenile black rat snake survive in a barn with high rafters to climb in but also several cats, goats, a donkey and 40 chickens?
- At what age do black rat snakes start eating good sized rodents (5" body)
- Will a black rat snake eat my eggs or chickens?
- What should I do to take care of her right now. I have not given her water, food or bedding, but I do have a small iguana basking light on her.

This is the situation: I live on 7 acres and I raise chickens (less than 40). I'm a novice and last summer when I saw a 5' long snake in the nesting boxes I over-reacted and killed it. I feel terrible about it and in hindsight, wish I had just trapped it and relocated it. It seemed rather docile and almost acted as if it felt that it was okay to stop hiding from me. At the same time it was probably eating my eggs and scaring the hens.

Anyway, I've recently noticed that the rodent population in the barn is becoming unmanageable - and wish the snake were back. Two days ago, one of my cats caught a snake. It looked just like the other snake, which I believe was a black rat snake, only in miniature. This snake is black with a white colored belly with an occasional speck of white throughout the black - probably measuring less than 18" long. I thought that a juvenile black rat snake had different coloration than an adult - so I'm not sure what it is. Pupils are round and head doesn't seem to be triangular, but I haven't gotten too close.

I put it in a container until I make an informed decision. I thought I might raise her and put her in the barn when she was large enough to fend for herself. Then after she had taken care of the rodent problem and started to discover the eggs, relocate her. But honestly, I don't really want to care for her - I have enough animals at this point. Also, every time I walk by the jar she tries to strike at me. She also shakes her tail as if she is a rattler - is this normal behavior?

I decided I'd let nature take it's course and released her into the pasture. The cats brought her back again today and she's back in the container. Any advice?

a cat would probably kill the snake if he saw it

a ratsnake will take down small chickens and occasionally eggs, but he was probably looking for rodents that where attracted to the chicken food. no special lighting is nesasary. if you want to keep the snake you need an enclosure about 36" x 18" that is secure with good ventilation, a source of water(should be big enough for snake to fit), a hiding space, a heat pad made for reptiles, keep at an ambient temp of between 76-84 degrees, bedding material(carefresh, paper towels, coconut fiber, cypress mulch, aspen bedding), and he/she sould be eating mice or rats not much wider than the thickest part of his body. hope this helps.

Thanks for responding!

Is that a baby rat snake in your picture? I haven't take a picture yet - kinda scared he'll lunge at me, frankly. This snake looks very much like the one in your picture except for the faint pattern (which is not on mine) and the size - mine is a little thinner.

He would have an absolute field day in my barn - I just came in and saw at least 3 rats, But they stay exclusively in the rafters so the cats can't get them. I assumed the snake would figure out to get up there where the food was and out of harms way. I mean he IS wild.

If I just keep the snake for a day or two until I can make a positive id with pictures, is it necessary to give him food, water and bedding?I assumed he needed some warm, hence the light...

yes, if it is a rat snake, it sould have no trouble getting up in the rafters. if the snake looks like this it is a kingsnake and likely will not bother with the chickens or the rats. he would be looking for other snakes, where do you live?

Nope - looks very black without a pattern.

I have no idea how I'm going to get water in there. This critter is pretty pissed - very aggressive when I come anywhere near. Suggestions?

I can put him/her in the barn, but I think it'll choke on my rats. If they should be eating mice the size of their girth then that would be no bigger than my thumb. She/he is small.

I'm in Georgia - near Atlanta.

(I'll try to get a picture in the daylight tomorrow)

Are rat snakes slow growers? Do you think it would take very long before a little one could start eating good sized rats? What do they eat when they're little?

Saw this image in the gallery and it looks just like my snake...

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=327779&size=big

you can give him water without being nipped. baby rats are perfect size althou it was probably looking for mice. its too small to bother your chickens and it will be some time before it gets that big. its definetly a black ratsnake, harmless. if you are really that scarred of it you should just put it back where you found it.

I've never handled a snake before, so I don't really know how to. And I'm scared of it because it's so scared of me and really - it's VERY aggressive.

I think I will put him in the barn. I'm not at all worried about the chickens or the eggs at this point, more worried that he doesn't become someone else's dinner - - and that he can find food small enough to eat.

But until then I will try the gloves and give him some water - good idea.

Thanks for all your input - I really appreciate it.

I understand your nervousness as an unexperianced snake handler. they can be quite agressive(defensive) sometimes, but its bite would barely be a scratch. if you do release the snake in your barn, try to find somewhere with suitable hiding places as the cats would surely make short work of it

Hey, that was my picture!! Im famous!
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

>>Saw this image in the gallery and it looks just like my snake...
>>
>>
>>http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=327779&size=big

I'll have to disagree with everyone else and say your snake is not a black rat snake but instead a black racer.

I believe you are absolutely correct.I asked on another forum and they said the same thing. I took another look at the snake and it's belly is more of a blueish color -

I just released him - not quite IN the barn, but beside it where he can easily slip in - and right near where the rodents tend to stay. So! This might be exactly what I need in this barn!

I hope she gets big soon...as the rats keep getting bigger...

Thank you so much for your help!

good posibility

Dwight, if we're talking about the same snake here, this is DEFINITELY a Black Ratsnake, and not a Black Racer. A nice dark specimen at that....guaranteed!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

>>Dwight, if we're talking about the same snake here, this is DEFINITELY a Black Ratsnake, and not a Black Racer. A nice dark specimen at that....guaranteed!
>>
>>
>> ~Doug
>>
>>-----
>>"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

The snake in the picture you posted is a black rat snake, yes. But the snake in the pictures posted by the original poster is a racer, guaranteed.

dg

You have to follow this link to see her pics:
Link to racer photos

Yeah,.......I'm not sure exactly how I missed those pics, but in any case, after looking at your link to the photos,.....DEFINITELY a Black Racer!,...guaranteed!..hahahaha!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

My photos are all copyrighted and you all owe me $4000 right now!!!!

ahahhaa, umm, kidding.
I'm glad we finally got pix of the actual snake and got it all sorted out. Meanwhile, maybe I'll see the little black rat in my yard again in a few weeks when the weather stays nice outside.
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

Sorry to disagree with you (again), but here it is. Sure I can see how one might think it's a Black Racer, but take a careful second look at the shape of the head and the anterior lateroventral pattern. I'm quite certain this is indeed a Black Ratsnake. I have owned many Black Rats looking exactly like this one. Please don't tell me they were all Racers, LOL

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=327779&size=big

Herman,
The website of the actual animal in question is
.
http://www.design-farms.com/page1.html

.
I think you'll agree it seems to be a Racer if you look here.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Without even the slightest doubt whatsoever, http://www.design-farms.com/page1.html pictures a Racer. So does the picture that was posted by Dwight Good. Somehow I got the impression that the snake pictured at http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=327779&size=big was the subject of this debate. My mistake, I guess.

LOL!!,...that's exactly what I thought, and why I posted what I did earlier. I thought I was in the "Twilight Zone" there for a while. I was thinking.....HUH!!!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Same here. It can happen to the best of us, as we're only human, but Dwight Good mistaking a Ratsnake for a Racer seemed a little odd to me too. I mean, yes whe often have our differences on Ratsnake related subjects, in fact we hardly ever agree on anything, but he sure knows Ratsnakes, I'll give him that.

Sorry for the confusion with the photos. I guess you all agree now that this snake was a racer. Guess it's unimportant as both a racer and a rat snake are helpful and not harmful, for my situation.

I finally got a rat in a trap yesterday and I think I have roof rats. Which would explain why bacon wasn't luring them and why the cats aren't getting to them. They stay in the rafters - which are at least 20 ft high - perfect for a rat snake.

Guess I need to find a rodent forum next!

Thank you all so much for your help

rat

A DEAD ONE! I'm sure you have many more valuable snakes on your property. if there are as many rats as it sounds like, I'm sure the snakes will find them. in the future if you don't know what kind of snake it is, leave it be. where there are babies, there are adults, and like I said a few scraps of lumber, cinder blocks, or railroad ties. just remember, what attracts snakes usually attracts prey.

Seems like lately the prey is outnumbering the predators. In fact tonight I checked a snap trap and the entire thing was GONE! No rat. No trap! I found it humorous...envisioning a rat lumbering along with a trap attached to it's leg trying to get where he wanted to go..banging into walls and such...that is, until I found another one struggling in a glue trap and had to drown it...

Dear God - what was I thinking when I wanted the 'country life'

I'm thinking about calling some pest control companies in the area and asking them if they find a mature black rat snake, if they might consider relocating it here...

I think a rat snake is what I need

sounds to me like you need a few ratsnakes, milksnakes, kingsnakes, racers, pine/bullsnakes, maybe even a rattler or two!LOL! JK

Yeah - it's hilarious

maybe! - except the rattlers ; o

Greetings Dwight. Any trips planned this Spring? Shoot me an e-mail.

Although they certainly are ophiophagous(snake eaters)I don't think any Kingsnake is going to turn down a great tasting meal like a chick, or a rat.........but they certainly aren't as arboreal as ratsnakes.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

It sounds like a Black Kingsnake(Nigra)from GA I would set it free. It is probably just hunting for rodents.

Saw this image in the gallery and it looks just like my snake...

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=327779&size=big

yea thats a black rat,very common snake in your area. the amount of pattern visable depends on the specific snake, and generaly goes from grey/lots of pattern, to straight black/no pattern as the snake ages. but once again varies for each snake, mine is 10 years old and still has a very visable pattern and even a tiny bit of red, anyway.....

black rat snakes love rodents, but also love eggs,probally wouldnt bother the chickens at all. if this was my barn i'd use a fine mesh for the chickens so the snakes couldn't get in, but still allow them free roam around,if the head can fit through,the rest of the snake can.

black rats are VERY good climbers, so the'll get the mice no problem.

ps. i wish i had a barn full of black rats, i envy you.

wish you had a barn full of black rats or black rat snakes?

Personally I could live without walking into my barn at night and hearing rats scurry above my head - yeesh

I'm guessing snakes will eat an egg on occasion - I just need to collect them often - whereas a rat will probably break one after another and just be a menace. You're right - they are closed in at night behind chicken wire, but a mesh would be better - keep the rats out too.

New project, I guess...

rats. unless, they breed them to feed to snakes! anyway, GOOD LUCK with you new found friend!

Here's a link to some not so great pictures. Hopefully you can tell by the shape and color if this is a baby rat snake. Had to shoot them through a plastic container.

Thanks for your input

http://www.design-farms.com/page1.html

That's a black racer.

They can look a lot like black rats until you've seen a lot of each, but racers' heads are shaped differently (a little rounder and with that almost-eye-brow ridge above their eyes) and their color is a little different - a very even, solid powdery black instead of the rat snake's faint pattern.

Either way it'll eat rodents, but the racer might be a little less likely to try to eat chicken eggs.

Billy

-
Phillyherping

not a black ratsnake. it is a black racer. they are easily stressed and you should let it go OUTSIDE!

Late coming into this, Val, and you've gotten some excellent direction already.
Just for future reference...
Your state, like mine, makes it to illegal to capture or collect wild harmless snakes.
That said countless farmers and ranchers here will throw any Black Racer or Black Rat snake into their barn or silo, and our wildlife resource folks turn a blind eye.
Even an immature Racer or Rat Snake, though not large enough to take a large rat, does a much more efficient job on the subterranean nestlings than any cat can do.
Kudos for being protective of this animal.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Thank you. Unfortunately one of my problems is that I DO want to protect all these creatures - hence a barnful of chickens, goats, donkey, sadly rats and a houseful of cats.

I guess they'll all sort it out on their own - the snake might not even stay in the barn - time will tell

This poor old world needs many more down to earth folks like yourself!
More rats = more snakes. Keep up the good works!!
Dan

The plain white white belly rather than a checked one indicates that it's a racer. I'd simply leave the snake in the wild. Yes, a cat might get it, but it has other natural predators as well - if it can avoid them, then it might grow up to be a mouse eater. Although black rat snakes probably eat more rodents than racers, which are rather democratic about their prey.

Tim