Reptile & Amphibian Forums

for some reason I seem to be bad at at picking females. All of my males eat like champs but most of my ladies are picky feeders. I'm a full time student and picky feeders are consuming my time. The prices in bps drop so quickly i'm beginning to think in the end this will probably be a huge waste of money and time. I'm thinking about throwing in the towel on my bp projects and taking the loss. From the guys that have been around for decades how common is this? Do a lot of people start as hobby breeders but get out of breeding after a few years?

It's very common. No matter how many times someone hears that it needs to be done with a true love for the animals and not for the money, it never seems to stick. I could care less if I ever make a dime back, it's nice to make a few bucks, but it's not necessary. I have fun simply keeping them and interacting at reptile shows with customers and people out just to see what people have. I spend more than I'm willing to lose and keep my collection small enough that food bills aren't killing me.

It can take years to recover all the cost of buying and raising BP's up to breeder size. I wouldn't give up, but that's me. Then again I just like having my animals around and hatching out babies.

That I DON'T spend more than I'm willing to lose......sorry for the typo.

I know exactly what you are saying. I am very serious when it comes to my business but I wont call home to mom if I don't sell a snake today. Thats why I as well as I am sure most others have a day job
Foot Hill Reptiles

I don't think this is a ball python phenomenon you're talking about, but happens with any reptile project. I was in your situation years ago, except I was keeping and trying to breed chameleons rather than ball pythons. It was extremely difficult to be successful at what I was tying to do with my reptiles as a full time student. I didn't have the money, or the time, or the stability. I was moving every few months, school to home, I didn't have a penny to my name, and school took most of my time. I know how frustrating it is. You have a small collection, as I did, and you desperately want it to pan out because you've spend your very few hard earned dollars on the project and you really don't want to fail.

I would stick with it if I were you for no other reason than it's going to do you no good to get rid of them now. Give it a few years, hang onto your pythons. All this takes time and patients, and the normal things that happen to collections, bad eaters, dead female chameleons in my case, can set back a project in a small collection YEARS. If you can't afford them and it's weighing on your mind, maybe then I'd say get rid of them, and pick it back up when you're out of school - when you've got cash, time, and stability.

Shea Peterson

If you got into Balls JUST to make a buck, you did not do your homework. The big money days are over, and I think most of the people that just wanted to make a quick buck are gone or leaving. If you want a fun hobby that can pose as a side business, and get you a few tax right offs, then Balls might be for you. Very few are lucky enough to make a living at it. My advise, keep 30 or less snakes, and keep replacing with higher end animals. The fewer hets, poss hets and normals you can produce, the better.

Dave

"for some reason I seem to be bad at at picking females. All of my males eat like champs but most of my ladies are picky feeders. I'm a full time student and picky feeders are consuming my time. The prices in bps drop so quickly i'm beginning to think in the end this will probably be a huge waste of money and time. I'm thinking about throwing in the towel on my bp projects and taking the loss. From the guys that have been around for decades how common is this? Do a lot of people start as hobby breeders but get out of breeding after a few years?"

The title of yor post is BP industry patterns?. The first thing I thought when I read the title was another disgruntled person who saw dollar signs in their eyes and it wasn't working out like they thought. Nothing against you, because I was recently told by a person that has a considerable business that they do it for the money, and when the money is gone in ball pythons, they will be gone from breeding them. You need a serious amount of capitol to invest in a business. I shutter to think what is spent in Africa every year by investors. Consider what people like Ralph, Kevin, Dave and Tracy, and BHB have spent in Africa. If you want to run with the big dogs and catch up, you better be able to spend six or seven numbers to the left of the decimal. I know more than $50k has been spent on one animal by one person or a group of people. If you want to be like them, you need to spend like them. You couldn't go to your local chevy dealer and buy an SS Monte Carlo on Monday and go race against Tony Stewart, Dale Jr., or Jeff Gordon on Sunday and compete.

Consider your place in "The Ball Python Industry." Do you want to make money or have fun? Both can be done. Personally, I have been keeping BP's for about 14 years and have only produced two clutches of normals. I now have hets that I am raising and will produce some of the stuff I always wanted from them. It will take me years to ever make back what I have spent on ball pythons, but who cares. Remeber, you are dealing with living animals. Things can, will, and do happen and that is part of it. Living things can die, fail to thrive and breed, and cost may times their value in medical bills or whatever. Nothing is guaranteed to work out 100%.

My point is this. If you want them as an investment, wait until you have the capitol to make the "investment." If you want to do it as a hobby, don't worry about the money.

Best of luck!
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

My snakes aren't fat, they're big boned.

...and if you're not ready to give it up, and have some cash, why not hedge your bet a little bit? Ya, prices have come down, which means there's a real good change you'd be able to pick up some females at a real good value. I'm not sure the makeup of you collection, but I bet there's some 100%hets out there that can be had at really reasonable prices that may do wonders for your situation.

Shea Peterson

The title gave me the same feeling. I sense that the original poster was entering as a "busuness". While there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it can get frustrating if your sole goal is making money.
If you are limited in time and funding fo your collection, concentrate on jut a few females. Once they are up to size, you can add to your collection. If you spend large amounts of maney on morphs that won't be able to breed for several years, then you will most assuredly become frustrated by the price dropping.

i say stick it out. it's just like everything else in life, school, jobs, relationships. you can't turn tail and run the first time you think it may not be going right. figure out what you have to do to make it work. it'll be a great life lesson. there is still plenty of money in ball pythons, and snakes in general. it gets tougher and tougher to able to produce anything in the u.s. profitably, this one still works. a few tips, 1. have a realistic time frame. you have to raise your snakes to breeding size before you're even in the game. that's 3-5 years, longer than most people plan for. on the plus side, that 1500 gram female will keep growing and having bigger clutches as she gets older. 2. plan for feeding costs. it's easy and cheap to feed babies. that last year as your snakes mature and need lots of big rats is a back breaker for lots of people. figure out in advance where those rats are coming from. 3. caging. again, it's easy in the begining, but before you get to breed, your snakes are going to need proper adult caging. lots of ways to do this, just plan ahead. not everything you will do in your life is as rewarding as this can be, good luck. kurt d.