Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone,

So far this year I have had zero luck in getting my pastel to become gravid. She has locked up numerous times since Nov. Even I stopped her at the begining of Feb. but nothing. So last night I tried again with one of my Male pastels and from this morning till even right now they are locked up. Should I stop and wait till next season or should I continue till the end of March?

Here is a pick of them as of tonight.

I also posted over in the breeding forum but it doesnt look to active

leave them be, and keep pairing them up every few weeks.

did you cycle the female? How old is she? Whats her weight?
If she's going to become gravid she will if not then she wont. How many times have they bred how often?
Kevin Stoltz
www.kmsreptiles.com

Keep pairing. I have 3 girls that have ovulated after 1-4 locks, and 4 that have locked 7-12 times that have not. Keep an eye on her follicle growth. I have not figured out the follicle palpating thing yet, but you can see the build in almost all females. I offer food every week and most girls become ravenous 2-3 weeks from ovulation. If a girl stops feeding AND refuses the males breeding attempts 3 consectutive rotations -- she will likely go soon. Keep pairing -- they are all on different schedules!! Good luck. Nice pastels!!!

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Bill Buchman

Love that male, Bill. Granite or something else? Good luck with that pairing.
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-Diana
www.LunarBoids.com

Diana,

I probably should have posted a different breeding pic in retrospect. I just uploaded one quickly for kicks before I realized which one I sent. This, I'm sure, is WAY more info than you need but I would expect others will have questions/opinions(this is kingsnake afterall LOL) and will read this post which was supposed to be a short response-- but I often struggle with brevity. Maybe it will aide someone else who may struggle with similar pitfalls of working with unproven snakes, or foster a discussion/sharing of ideas about a subject that is certainly subjective at the least. It would be nice if there were a rule book or site that dealt with the many gray-areas of the hobby. I guess some things are by their very nature SUBJECTIVE. The thing I think important to remember is that all of these beautiful creatures that we enjoy were ALL unproven -- until someone did. Because I have a few snakes I'm trying to prove this year, and in future years, I no doubt, like some of you, will have to deal with some of the following issues in the future -- so here goes.

I proved my ???? dominate with one clutch in September. Bred to a normal, I hatched 10 eggs (4 normals and 3.3 of my guy). The prettiest male had some egg stress and didn't make it ultimately. It's always the pretty ones that don't make it -- so it seems. I would be SHOCKED if he were not codom, but will have to wait until next season to know about the super. Two of his three daughters are little piggies and are already approaching 600 grams. If I can get them to size by spring/summer 2009 I will breed them. They will either go -- or not. I have a name for them, but am keeping that under wraps until I make some combos this season. I want to see what he does with 2-3 morphs. I want to play it conservative until I see a little of what he will do. I feel like the project will be best served by me doing at least a little bit with it. I have talked with a few well-known professional breeders personally and got some opinions from others through a friend because I am an AMATEUR with LITTLE experience afterall -- that is certainly true. What also could be true is that I proved a snake in my very FIRST clutch that might be an exciting new moph that may bring something of virtue to the hobby -- or not -- only time will tell.

I do believe that ANY snake will ultimately stand/fall on its merit. It IS the base, homo, super, and combo-potential of any morph that dictates its success/appeal. What is in a name? A Killer Bee by any other would look as SWEET!! The Evil Morph God handled the spider with great restraint at its outset. I'm sure it was not easy -but if the info I have is true, it was the responsible route both from a hobby, and a business perspective. Have some on the shelf, have a combo or two to show what it does/doesn't do before you market it/go public.

Ralph Davis is also someone I appreciate in that he works his projects and does not "formally' name a snake before he knows that it is at least to some extent genetic --sometimes not even then. He needs to KNOW more. What I also admire is that Ralph, is that he not shy about putting a name on something he sees as different from established morphs. I don't want to speak for him, but I suspect he feels the snake/project will best dictate whether it will be accepted/rejected -- not humans bickering about this name or that. I know that he could have named the super phantom goblin the "pond scum" ball and I would still be drooling and covet them! Awesome snake!!! I know there are many other breeders of varying degrees that also treat projects with care. I just grabbed two from the many.

There are more than a few ball pythons that are VERY similar, and yet have different names. I am not yet totally sure WHAT "my guy" is in the grand scheme of things-yet. But I AM prepared to take a position on what he is NOT when the time is right. That time is not now. The struggle for me was whether to do the more common approach of rushing out and naming and trying to market him in fear that someone else will have the same snake and beat me to it, or what I believe to be the more responsible, mature, and measured approach of waiting and "patiently working" with my snake and his offspring. I easily chose the latter when I came to the conclusion that focusing on what I am doing rather than expend emotional energy worrying about others would be in the general best interest of all.

So far this season I have my boy with a BUNCH of normals (he is a real stud!), that pastel in the pic, a yellow belly, and a het albino. This is my first year breeding so my morph girl selection is somewhat limited based on what I'm doing with other animals. I'm trying to take a short cut to get his WICKED pattern in yellow and white with that albino het. I'll have some albino girls ready next year.

I do expect that their will be at some point some controversy over my snake. Not my hope. Just keeping it real. That controversy might likely be brought by someone more "recognizable" in the hobby -- that means EVERYBODY for the most part. The only thing I will have to support my point of view will be the snakes I produced. I feel I need more in number and variety than I have now in order that any position I take be seen as somewhat legit. My ego does not require the drama that often comes these days with a new morph. However, I am not open to the idea of letting someone put a name on a snake I produced/worked with just because they have a higher hobby "Q Rating" or have been doing it longer.

I DO wish those of you who roll the dice spending your time and money on something other than a mainsteam morph in hopes that you will make something NEW!!! I love all the combos new and old, but "the new" gets my blood pumping!!! It is the creative part of ball pythons that SHOULD be most important whether it be combos or new stuff -- shouldn't it?
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Bill Buchman

You said that you proved out that male. Can you post any pics of the 3.3 you produced compared to the normal offspring? I just wanted to ask because I have a very similar male. In 2004 I did get a couple girls with some of his pattern, but they didn't look like him enough for me to think that it was codom or dominant. I guess either that, or he's nothing, or odds were against me. I bred him to three of his 2004 daughters this year and two have ovulated so far. Either way, I guess I will get some answers in a few weeks, I hope.

Ive had females go late. My last hatch was on 10-30-07.. It happens when she's ready.

Van
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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

Thanks everyone for the responses. To answer some of the questions,

She is 1900g, about 3 years old and has been cycled since 0ct-Nov time frame. She has locked up with My pastel numerous times since Nov.

I'm in the same boat with one of my pastels - she's still eating - but she is still locking up on a regular basis so I'll give it a go until the end of March and what happens - happens - but it's definitely not too late.

Good luck.
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Tosha
JET Pythons