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I sent an e-mail to Mr. Rodda last week covering my concerns with the data used and subsequent conclusions reached in the study on the northern movement of the burmese pythons in Florida. Most of the concerns I expressed to him were also included in my Feb. 24th post on this forum. I received an e-mail back a few days later from Robert Reed who was one of the co-authors of the original paper, along with Mr. Rodda, that started this entire issue. He sent me a complete copy of the original study paper as it was accepted for publication on Feb. 12, 2008. The paper is 12 pages and does contain a significant amount of study data and references. Mr. Reed also sent me a lengthy response to the concerns that I had expressed in my previous e-mail to Mr. Rodda. After reading the original paper and Mr. Reed's response, I still see obvious errors in the logic they are using to base their conclusions on the ability of this sub-species of P. molurus to spread beyond the State of Florida. Having read over the paper and e-mail from Mr. Reed, I am in the process of drafting a response to the information supplied. I will post a copy of that response on this Forum after I have sent it to Mr. Rodda and Mr. Reed. A major critical issue is that this is a sub-species and genotype of P. molurus that these authors have very little physiological understanding of, or first hand experience with. Additionally, many of their conclusions are based on extreme northern latitude, genotypically isolated populations of both sub-species that would not apply to the pythons currently in the Everglades.

Kelly

Kelly, I'm glad you chose to confront these people about this whole thing I wanted to, but I'm not near knowledgeable enough to attempt it and expect any sane results. Please keep us informed on this whole thing.

Quig

Good info Kelly.

Are they discussing this with you and seeing your points or are they defending their conclusions?

Randy
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

i'm also very glad that you've taken this on! I have many choice words-- none of which would be productive-- so i better the situation by keeping thy trap shut!

I would love to read the conversations back and forth--- really interested to see thier response-- besides 'deer in the headlights'.

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Thank you, Kelly, for not sitting idly by with your level of knowledge.

Am I wrong for coming to the conclusion that while they may have some data on some molurus in similar climates, they're not considering how long it took those to acclimate, become established? To evolve, more or less?

Well, let's all do the right thing here. Since these burms here in the US are determined to migrate north, let's all place a heat mat outside for 'em and buy 'em a good fleece jacket. They're gonna need it. I've got a few pairs of long-johns that I can't get the stains out of, time to recycle 'em.

Your's truly!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Kelly-
It's great to hear that you've been in contact with Rodda and have refuted their claims. You're exactly the kind of person that we as a community need to have in contact with USFWS and the USGS. Certainly keep us posted of their responses if you will, and thank you.

Good job for depending the right to keep these loveable giants. I'm not sure if it's worthy of being mentioned in your response, but I think if Californians are afraid of these giants making this great migration from Florida to California they would have to cross so many barriers like mountain ranges, high way roads (cause I've seen so many articles where free burmese pythons and african rocks have been killed in the road) and most of all scared people who would just plain out kill these loveable giants the minute they see them. The very fact these giants are so people tame, I'm sure they would approach any person they come in contact with. However that person reacts is more of a bigger impact to the well being of the burmese python more than the actual person. The python will either be killed or hopefully sent to some sort of humane society/rescue center. If Californians are going to encounter burmese pythons in their backyard, it's because a Californian released it there and not because it migrated from some southern state. Just a side note, I've been living in sunny CA most of life, so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing them. I hope this makes sense.

Kelly,

Hey there buddy. It's been a while since we last spoke.
I have known Kelly for many years.
(Not an advertisement....but, Kelly offers some Awesome Feeder Mice!!! And, as you all know, he is a really good dude too.)

Anyway....now that my nose is nice and brown....lol.

Could you post a copy of the letter you recieved?
It might be enlightening for all of us to see what sort of ideas are pushing the Deptartment of Interior to make this inquiry and
and encouraging the USFS to look into possible restrictions.

In battle they often say...."know your enemy".

And while I hate to think of any branch of our federal government as "the enemy"....I fear we may all be in for a real battle!

I know that posting the letter you received from Gordon Rodda would also be appreciated on other kingsnake forums as well....like the Ball Python, Blood Python, and Retic forums...but also the general Python forum.

This information would allow us to better understand the misleading logic they are using to feed the hysteria of the general public...or perhaps it will help us to see the rhetoric of special interest organizations, like PETA and the US Humane Society. Above all, it might allow us to better form a more solid defence agianst tighter legislation.

And Thank you, Kelly, for your efforts.
This is a subject that should involve EVERYONE in the herp community. If YOU (the readers) are not already PIJAC members...NOW is the time to join the ranks.
Thanks again.

Your friend,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

I really appreciate the support from all of you here on this forum. Harlin especially, who I have known for many years. He is a very knowledgeable person in the field of herpetoculture with many years of experience, (great guy as well too). I have been buried at work this week and haven't had a lot of time to work on this in the last few days. I intend to have a response back to them in the next day or so, and will post all of their responses as well. They are strongly defending their data, and Mike hits the main point I believe they are mis-interpreting, ie: the evolutionary adaptation of the northern populations being extrapolated to P.m. bivittatus. I will definitely be posting shortly on this and thanks again.

Kelly

It's great to be gathering scientific data to defend the keepers view but it's a waste of time to correspond with this Rodda guy. With the USFW is where the correspondence needs to be focused.

Nothing is being misinterpreted Rodda is putting out exactly what he wants put out. He knows how the game is played . Long ago these guys figured out that it's best to try and hide who their friends are. The way to do that is by appearing as neutral as possible. To pretend to be disassociated . The old yes we're all very concerned and are trying to help but we have to be sure we do the right thing. Pushing their radical views while pretending to listen to the other side. In listening to his words and reading what he has to say it doesn't take a lot of insight to see what this flim flam man is up to. It's standard operating proceedure.These people are firm in the belief (at least that's what they say ) that their right and there's no way anyone is going to get them to pull their heads out of their butts.

Dr Gordon Rodda has a long standing relationship with the Sierra club.They have been very helpful in spreading the messages they want put out. For those that don't know the Sierra club is Peta's twin sister.They both totally share the same radical views and fully support each other as well as violent terrorist factions.

Sierra club = environmental rights / ELF environmental liberation front
Peta = animal rights / ALF animal liberation front

Ernie Eison
westwoodreptiles.com

Yes, it's admirable to fight the fight with scientific data and logic, but that will only work if the "other side" is interested in science, logic and reason. If anyone wants to see what we
are up against, check out this video that was posted on the boa forum. It's great. It's an expose by Penn and Teller on PETA (some bad language, so don't watch with the kids):

Video Link

Ernie, is the USFWS untainted by these radical groups? I have
no idea, I'm just not the trusting person I used to be

Thanks,
Ed

>>It's great to be gathering scientific data to defend the keepers view but it's a waste of time to correspond with this Rodda guy. With the USFW is where the correspondence needs to be focused.
>>
>> Nothing is being misinterpreted Rodda is putting out exactly what he wants put out. He knows how the game is played . Long ago these guys figured out that it's best to try and hide who their friends are. The way to do that is by appearing as neutral as possible. To pretend to be disassociated . The old yes we're all very concerned and are trying to help but we have to be sure we do the right thing. Pushing their radical views while pretending to listen to the other side. In listening to his words and reading what he has to say it doesn't take a lot of insight to see what this flim flam man is up to. It's standard operating proceedure.These people are firm in the belief (at least that's what they say ) that their right and there's no way anyone is going to get them to pull their heads out of their butts.
>>
>> Dr Gordon Rodda has a long standing relationship with the Sierra club.They have been very helpful in spreading the messages they want put out. For those that don't know the Sierra club is Peta's twin sister.They both totally share the same radical views and fully support each other as well as violent terrorist factions.
>>
>>Sierra club = environmental rights / ELF environmental liberation front
>>Peta = animal rights / ALF animal liberation front
>>
>>
>>Ernie Eison
>>westwoodreptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

From past experience USFW and USDA haven't been very receptive to activist groups if anything I would think they would be more on our side. I really believe that if it was up to them we would have never heard a single thing about any of this. There was never a real reason for them to get involved. USFW`s hand was pretty much forced by the repeated badgering from the State of Florida. They could only blow these guys off so many times. Right now it's more of an investigative probe but in the end I don't know who all will have a say in the final out come. What I do believe is that we really have to make a good case for our selves with USFW because if anyone is going to cut us some slack it will be them.

We caught a break when Rodda decided to over step the boundaries of his project map and concocted that second global warming map. Hijacking the primary issue so that he could try to take advantage of this media opt to push personal beliefs and the private agenda of his buddies back fired. The inclusion of the Global warming topic really distracted from what was supposed to be the focus of the article and took everything away in terms of credibility. Instead of creating a nation wide panic, by trying to take advantage of the situation Rodda made a complete butt hole out of himself. It's really pretty sad that creeps like Gordon Rodda and Skip Snow are called upon to provide expert data (based on lies) but it's no accident. If official academic impute is needed there are many people in the field that are more qualified but for some reason it always seems to be one of these two that end up in the media.

Ernie Eison
westwoodreptiles.com

Thanks for the info. I don't have any insider knowledge within
the "scientific" community, but I do know that the global warming map sent me through the roof. It made no sense. So the already ridiculous range might increase by a very small percentage in 100 years based on global warming? It couldn't even be disguised as anything other than junk science based on trying to scare the public. Who cares anyway if 46.5% of the country (in 100 years) could support burms as opposed to 42% (currently)?

Maybe these guys are not as smart as I've giving them credit for.

Thanks,
Ed

>>From past experience USFW and USDA haven't been very receptive to activist groups if anything I would think they would be more on our side. I really believe that if it was up to them we would have never heard a single thing about any of this. There was never a real reason for them to get involved. USFW`s hand was pretty much forced by the repeated badgering from the State of Florida. They could only blow these guys off so many times. Right now it's more of an investigative probe but in the end I don't know who all will have a say in the final out come. What I do believe is that we really have to make a good case for our selves with USFW because if anyone is going to cut us some slack it will be them.
>>
>> We caught a break when Rodda decided to over step the boundaries of his project map and concocted that second global warming map. Hijacking the primary issue so that he could try to take advantage of this media opt to push personal beliefs and the private agenda of his buddies back fired. The inclusion of the Global warming topic really distracted from what was supposed to be the focus of the article and took everything away in terms of credibility. Instead of creating a nation wide panic, by trying to take advantage of the situation Rodda made a complete butt hole out of himself. It's really pretty sad that creeps like Gordon Rodda and Skip Snow are called upon to provide expert data (based on lies) but it's no accident. If official academic impute is needed there are many people in the field that are more qualified but for some reason it always seems to be one of these two that end up in the media.
>>
>>Ernie Eison
>>westwoodreptiles.com