Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have anymore info on these guys? Are they going to be in the new up and coming morph guide? How did they appear? Just really interested in these.. i'm sure alot of people arent aware of these yet.
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

brian at bhb ent. is the onw working with them. supposedly he has already proven the gene to be recessive and has at least two breeding pairs, and some offspring. this is all second hand hear say so take from it what you want. i have seen pictures of one said offspring and it looks freaky but i would definetly own one.
the cosensious(sp) seems that you either absolutly hate them or want one not too many in betweens yet.
im pro-hybrid which everyone else hates so i figure ill like the scaleless snakes also, im all about the freak stuff.
adam
ill see what else i can find out.
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.2 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
2.2 pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
0.1 hypo pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
1.0 crimson corns
0.2 albino pueblacorns
0.1 striped ghosts
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa

My opinion - I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should or should not breed, but IMHO it is a very detrimental genetic disease , moreso than even stargazing, and I will not buy any corns for my collection that are known to possibly carry the trait.

Scales are extremely fundamental physiological component of a snake.

If it's your piece of pie, have at it, but I personally want nothing to do with that particular mutation.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

That makes at least two of us that don't care fo it..LOL!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

...although I am sure that my opinion means nothing to those working with it. I agree with FunkyRes, though, in that I would be hesitant to get animals from someone working with them for fear that the gene had snuck into some other projects. Similar to the way that so many "normal" corns sold today are actually het for something or other. Just my thoughts.

Rob

Yes, that is also a STRONG possibility,......e.g., just look right now on the "Kingsnake" forum, a guy asking what he has!, it's an obvious King, milk, possibly corn(anery.)hybrid that was sold to him as a Kingsnake...LOL!

No matter what, or how, they always wind up getting where they aren't supposed to.........the guy quoted.."I talked to a guy that seemed legit"..LOL!.......famous last words!..hahaha!

Maybe, just maybe, when there's hardly ANY real species/ssp. left in the hobby, people will start to "get it". Maybe not though.

~Doug

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I personally think they look similar to sand boas...except they have scales... but still i think they look similar- kinda freaky, but cool. understand??
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

from what i have read and again let me stress that i have no experience with them....
some say that they worry about movement but it appears that their are not hindered in any way. the skin is not so thin that it tears do to regular movement but one person did have a tear when a male love bit the female. some think that they would become more easily dehydrated but if you think about it the scales have no ability to transmit moisture the skin does it, the scales are only an outer protection layer. as far as scales aiding in the ability to move im sure they help when climbing braches and vertical surfaces but as far as ground movement they use their ribs and muscular contractions to move.
i understand why others feel the way they do about them im not saying i would breed them but i would own ONE...
i feel they same about bug eyed rats its a mutation and an ugly one at that but some find it attractive, to each their own.
adam
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.2 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
2.2 pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
0.1 hypo pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
1.0 crimson corns
0.2 albino pueblacorns
0.1 striped ghosts
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa

Scale-less Texas Ratsnakes have been around for at least a decade and they're never made it into the hobbysists market. Based on that, I'm not so sure scale-less corns will either.

Tim

Now this I haven't heard of before... I can see scale less corn snakes getting the same 'love/hate' views as the derma-ball did a few years ago in the ball python forum.

Its hard to say if the scaleless gene is a negative genetic defect, but pretty much all the color morph would be considered 'negative' in the wild..a snow white corn snake stands out really well in the fading light and dark to flying birds...

Sphinx cats have been an acceptable pet for decades, as have hairless mice, rats, guinea pigs, and dogs. They do have special needs, (can get chills faster, skin more easily damaged by claws of cage mates, etc) but I really don't see scaleless reptiles being less likely to catch the interest of hobbyists and pet owners.

Scaleless bearded dragons are being developed...I don't particularly like them myself...I just find the main appeal of a bearded dragon is the variation of scales they have.

The derma-ball pictures were quite fascinating...the head and most of the top of the body was completely lacking scales, but the stomach and sides did have scales, with a scattering of almost bead like scales on the sides. It looked almost like beads..the coloration and pattern was very much normal looking. It hunted and ate food fine as well, even though it lacked the 'pits' along the upper jaw, since the scales are missing...but the sensor cells are not in the scales, so it wouldn't have its main hunting methods hindered..(though range or accuracy may have been effected...no way to tell unless researched). As corns don't use heat pits, don't see this being an issue with them.

Thus, I don't consider scaleless by itself a real difference for snakes than fur in other animals. If it hinders its natural ability to move and hunt, then it will be more of a hindering mutation. As part of the way snakes move relies on the belly scales (they can actually 'grip' with their belly scales and the way they are aligned, helps prevent backward slippage) they may have a very hard time moving without them...that will be my main concern about a totally scaleless snake.
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PHLdyPayne

There is a significant difference though.
In captivity, a colour/pattern morph does not hinder the ability of the snake to survive or behave like a normal snakes.

Scales however serve many purposes - they are used for locomotion, they are used for climbing, they protect the skin from the elements (helping to prevent bacterial infections etc.).

I have no doubt that an experienced herper can raise them with some success, but I bet the care require is increased and the survival rate to 15 years of age is greatly decreased.

I'm opposed to amel gene in basking lizards for the same reason - the melanin performs an important component to their survival, even in captivity. Amel in snakes is different, as snakes do not spend a lot of time in direct UV light (and their have been adult amel specimens found in the wild). Anery and Hypo are both somewhat common in the wild - a minority in most places, but increasingly found (dark roads may make anery advantageous).

If I ever popped one out, I would feel obligated to contact everyone I sold relatives to and inform them that the snake I sold them may not be fit for breeding. If these become even a semi-popular morph, the gene will flow into the hobby in general, and that should be avoided. As I stated, I won't tell people what to do and what they should/should not breed, but if the gene ever flowed into my collection, it would cost me money and possibly end some of my projects pre-maturely.

Corns that look like corns but have questionable heritage (IE Ultra) aren't a concern for me - I don't breed corns to release them in the wild and preserve the species. Corns with genetic defects that certainly are detrimental in captivity I do wish to avoid, and I think their gene flow into the captive gene pools should be prevented.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)