Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was told that I shouldn't house more than one ball python in any enclosure, regardless of its size because it stresses them too much. I see in other folks' pictures multiple balls in one bin or terrarium all the time. Is there a consensus on this or varying opinions. I appreciate the help. It's new to me and I'd rather learn from mistakes others have made in the past than repeat them.

Eddie

most of the pics you will see here with multiple balls in one enclosure are breeding pics---

the general consensus is 1 ball per cage--- they are naturally solitary and don't "hang out together".

my understanding of the breeding is to put them together for 3 or so days-- or untill they are no longer 'locked up' and seperate them-- let the male rest for 3 or so days-- offer food-- if he eats-- let him rest longer to digest-- and put him back with the girl---

housing together isn't a long term thing--- its for breeding purposes....

housing them together can cause feeding issues if nothing else...

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

I agree with OK. I would never house 2 ball pythons together. It can cause a lot of stress.
Link

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Like OK said, most of the pics you're probably seeing right now are breeding pics.
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Oops, hit post too soon.

Most people house their balls singly because they keep them in tubs or very simple setups. In a simple setup with just a hide or two, one heat source, one water bowl, or in a tub setup, there is not enough room or hiding places for the snakes to do well together.
With ball pythons, you can house them together, BUT you need to make sure that there is enough resources (hides, heat, etc) in the cage that they don't feel like they are competing for them. This usually means a couple heat sources/basking sites, 3 or more hides, and a cage big enough to accomodate all of that. With babies, it's not too big a deal, but a cage big enough for adult sized hides/water bowl/heat sources?

Even if it does seem like you're giving them everything you think they need, they may still get stressed out and refuse to eat, meaning that your 'perfect' setup isn't all that perfect after all.

It ends up being a lot of work, time, and eventually money for two snakes that could be housed happily, easily, and relatively cheaply if they were just housed seperately.

And of course, with multiple snakes in the cage you are always going to have to seperate them to feed them.

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

This is one of those topics that I find very interesting. It makes me wonder sometimes if the prevailing opinions are based upon scientific facts, intense observation of the animals by a layperson over time and in a controlled enviornment, or just a pack mentality?

I myself think it is much better to keep Ball Pythons seperate. With this said, I have kept snakes together and, while I am not a scientist, I have observed them intensely over time and I have never seen one snake push another from the hide or warm spot. I also did not notice one snake eating any more or less than it would usually do or being more stressed out. I would never feed them together so I do not know what behavior this would induce, but I got a real good idea and it aint good. Also, I wouldnt keep two males of breeding age together especially in the fall/winter time.

Here are some other topics that kinda fall into this gray area:

Five or six years ago everyone was saying only feed FT cause it SO MUCH safer cause the rat will chew the snakes eyes out. Now days many people have gotten away from FT for live with no horror stories of chewed out eyes on here because of it?

For years many many people have said you need to lower temps for breeding in the fall. Now I hear many people believe its more a barometric factor that induces breeding. I heard the big breeder in Florida on that snake radio say its basically a waste of time to drop temps for breeding, but I go to the big breeder in Canada for breeding advice and he still says to lower temps...who is correct? Once again, there is no scientific answer here apparently.

People used to say to keep the humidity at like 70% all the time. Now many people keep humidity much, much lower... Trial and error? Personal preference?

I know one thing, its not scientific fact that many people give out on here as advice - thats for sure. Think about it before you blindly take advice, even from the big breeders.

>>This is one of those topics that I find very interesting. It makes me wonder sometimes if the prevailing opinions are based upon scientific facts,

Probably a bit of each, but mostly regurgitation of information (right or wrong). The problem I see with people complaining about repeating what others have said is that each and every person does not have to prove a fact. The world is not flat. Did I prove this? No. Does it mean I'm wrong? No. If I repeat it, am I incorrect or uniformed? No. It is what it is.

>>
>>I myself think it is much better to keep Ball Pythons seperate.

I agree.

>>With this said, I have kept snakes together and, while I am not a scientist, I have observed them intensely over time and I have never seen one snake push another from the hide or warm spot. I

So have I with no apparent ill effects. That being said, would they prefer to co-habitate or go their separate ways? In an enclosed cage, they have no choice. I have had roommates and we did successfully live together. But I'd rather not had them.

>>
>>Here are some other topics that kinda fall into this gray area:
>>
>>Five or six years ago everyone was saying only feed FT cause it SO MUCH safer cause the rat will chew the snakes eyes out. Now days many people have gotten away from FT for live with no horror stories of chewed out eyes on here because of it?

People get away from feeding FT to Ball Pythons because it's a pain. My boas ate FT with absolutely NO issues so that's what they were fed. I have (personally) seen the damage a rat can do to a snake. I still feed live to Balls because they are such crappy FT feeders and take my gamble on damage.

>>
>>For years many many people have said you need to lower temps for breeding in the fall. Now I hear many people believe its more a barometric factor that induces breeding. I heard the big breeder in Florida on that snake radio say its basically a waste of time to drop temps for breeding, but I go to the big breeder in Canada for breeding advice and he still says to lower temps...who is correct? Once again, there is no scientific answer here apparently.

Yeah, I hear ya on this one. I would love to see some scientific proof on this. But at the end of the day, I think there are a number of factors. While not all are needed, a combination of a couple will do the trick.

>>
>>People used to say to keep the humidity at like 70% all the time. Now many people keep humidity much, much lower... Trial and error? Personal preference?

I live in central FL, so they get what mother nature gives them. That works for me. But may not work for someone who lives in an area like, say Arizona.

>>
>>I know one thing, its not scientific fact that many people give out on here as advice - thats for sure. Think about it before you blindly take advice, even from the big breeders.

Always good words to live by - especially on a public forum. Lots of good stuff, but you have to root out the bad. That's my advice, take it or leave it! DOH!
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I've kept hatchlings in pairs until they reach around 300 grams or so and have had zero problems. There are some although that need to be alone. I separate the ones that: are extremely nervous, have a very strong feeding response, or have feeding problems. Most are laid back though and don't seem to mind. I also make sure to separate them during feeding time and make sure (if they are doing well) to keep them with the same cagemate. I do not house adults of either sex together. This has worked for me but travel at your own risk on this one.

Jose
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5.50 Balls
.1 Columbian Boa
1 PacMan frog
1.0 Bearded Dragon
.1 Crested Gecko
1.4 LVPA Leos
2.2 corns
.1 pueblan milk
1 sulcata toroise