Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all fellow snake lovers,

I just went to a exotic reptile show to buy my first ever snake. I've wanted a kingsnake for awhile now, and after seeing hundreds of snakes I got to talking to one snake breeder who seemed legit.

So I bought the snake and brought him home and set up his tank and all that jazz. Looking at the container I bought him in though, it is labeled "Lavendar Anerythrist" (lavender spelt wrong)

However, when I google "anerythrist" all I get are cornsnakes. cornsnakes. cornsnakes. (I wanted my king!!)

Was I jipped? Or did I just happen to snag a rare king? The little guy (named Orion) is gorgeous none-the-less but I don't want the sour taste in my mouth knowing I actually bought a cornsnake.

Here's a low-quality picture of him in my (sexy) hand taken with my cell phone. I can get good digital pics soon if they are needed to help identify.

Thank you so much for any future assistance!!

From my amateur eye, that is definitely a kingsnake. At the very least, it is part kingsnake. He's beautiful in my opinion, but I'm sure the guys here can tell you what the color/subspecies/etc. may be.
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake possible mix (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

Kinda looks hybrid....(lav)Cal X (anery)honduran? I'm not exactly sure so wait for others to chime in...
Possibly a "jurassic" milk of sorts...

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

What you got there is likely a california king crossed with a Pueblan milksnake. In the hobby they call this Imperial milk...but thats an artificial name. Many times lazy sellers just put a snake in a cup at a show...and that label is from another snake. It looks kinda pretty, and if you paid less than $100 you didnt get ripped. The keeping of a hybrid is the same as a milksnake or kingsnake, just realize that you should not plan to breed it unless you know the origins because you wont be able to honestly tell someone like me what is. If you can find out this info from the breeder make sure to put it someplace safe that you can find in a few years if needed.Good luck,Jeff

Does not look lavender to me.
Does look funny for a kingsnake.

I have heard, only in an e-mail someone sent me, that there is a true anery/axanthic cal king that someone has in a project. The person who sent me the e-mail stated he wondered if the anery/axanthic gene was borrowed from floridana.

Maybe someone more in touch with new morphs can expand on that.

The desert phase cal kings can lack all yellow but it is not a single mendel gene, it is selective breeding (natural selection and sometimes refined by un-natural hobbyist selection).

The base color of that snake looks too dark to be lavender to me. The head looks funky for a Cal King.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

As far as being gyped is concerned - that I couldn't tell you.
How much did you pay for it?

Another possibility is that the vendor re-used a deli cup and did not remove the label from what previously occupied it.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

WOW thanks so much for the fast responces!! The main thing I'd like to know is: is this a kingsnake?

I have two things that'll help:
1) I found a pen with his number on it so I'm calling him tomorrow
2) I'm going to get real pictures of the snake so you can see his pattern/underbelly/head more clearly.

Hopefully we can to the bottom of what this slithery friend exactly is.

Thank you very much so far!!

Definitely a kingsnake.

Heavy Cal King influence if not "pure" cal king.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

but it definetly is a hybrid.....
i would have to guess that its f2 cal king x anery corn. it looks like my anery pueblacorn but with a king influence so you would have to talk to the breeder.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.2 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
2.2 pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
0.1 hypo pyroxgreerixruthvenixalternaxcampbellixholbrooki
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
1.0 crimson corns
0.2 albino pueblacorns
0.1 striped ghosts
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa

He looks kind of like a chain king to me, but he's very different from what I've seen in pure Eastern king stock. Whatever he is, good luck with your snake.

That is either a Imperial Pueblan (more likely) or a Cali X Floridana X Honduran 2nd or 3rd generation cross... not a pure kingsnake.

The head shape and pattern SCREAMS Pueblan... but it's not pure... it's looks more like the 1st generation crossing of a California Kingsnake X Pueblan Milksnake, but i've seen caliXfloridanaXhonduran crosses that look similar.

Looks anery in the picture, but i couldn't tell you the origin... would be a shame if the Pueblan used for this project has het anery...

~ZF
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Floridana Morphs: Resource Site

That looks like a cross to me... Part Cal King Part ?

Your best bet would be to call the breeder. And, as long as you are happy with the animal then you were NOT ripped off!

~ Mike

That snake is a hybrid. As others have said, it's a kingsnake crossed with some other type of non-king.
One of the favorite justifications of hybrid breeders is "It's OK if you're honest about what you're selling..."
Well it looks like this is yet another case of hybrid peddler not being honest.

Tim

Definitely part Cal King in my opinion. I couldn't tell you what the other part or parts are. If you are happy with it, then be happy with it. I am not into cross breeding, but your new snake is pretty. Enjoy it. Let us know what you find out from the dealer. Derek

Looks like a king to me. A 50/50 banded... can't tell that much from the pic, but I'm sure that's a king.

It's definitely a hybrid. Cal king X something.

>>>"I got to talking to one snake breeder who seemed legit"

*** Right,...."seemed" legit is the key word here...LOL!

What you have there is DEFINITELY an anery. hybrid cross,....probably of a Cal King x Milksnake(can't be sure of ssp.) x (possibly percentage)Cornsnake. But without knowing specifically what exactly was bred to make the combination, you will NEVER know for certain. Unfortunately, there are more hybrid combinations in the hobby now, than you can "shake a stick at", and the siblings never look the same as one another.

This is the VERY REASON I do NOT condone hybrids!!!(too long of a story). They ALWAYS get where they don't belong, no matter what.

Don't feel all alone though, you, like MANY other folks, didn't get the animal you "thought" you were buying.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I think he's cool looking. Seems to not mind being in your hand. Those would actually be my two main requirements for buying a snake. Has he eaten yet? What's his appetite like?
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1.1 Florida Kingsnake
1.0 Kisatchie Cornsnake

Yes he has eaten yesterday. I fed him a fuzzy.

When I got him on Sunday I asked the vendor when the next time I should feed him was and he said within the next couple of days. Not knowing for sure when the last time he ate was, I decided to feed him the next day (on Monday). He went right for it and seemed to have no problems.

This being my first snake, and seeing as how he now had a big lump in him (after fed), I decided not to pick him up or disturb him for at least 24 hours. Is that the correct amount of time after a meal to allow before I can engange him?

He is a very friendly snake so far, when startled he will jump back (his head) but has never shown signs of striking. I love when he settles down and rests in my hand. The pics I took of him (in this thread) he had not moved much in 5 minutes. I couldn't really ask for more of this snake.

I do not like to handle young snakes for at least 48 hours after they eat.
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x.y L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
x.y L. getula nigrita (MBK)
x.y L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
x.y Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus (W Hognose)
x.y.z Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

I agree,.....handling young snakes before this time is not a good idea at all.........if he doesn't read this, he'll find out soon enough,.....but at the snake's expense. Also, I wouldn't put that young of a snake in a 20 gallon aquarium either,.......oh well, hope he has LOTS of hide boxes..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

48 hours it is then. I had waited 36 hours before handling him and I realize now that may have been too soon. He was more resistant than normal and it was hard to settle him down. Next time I will allow at least 48 hours.

As far as the 20 gallon tank is concerned, what I did was fill it up with 2-3 inches of reptile bark spread evenly throughout, with a heated right side of approx 78-90 degrees and a cool left side of 70 degrees. The cool side has a water dish and hiding log. In the middle has hiding fake plant and a big hiding log (with hallow log branches) with many routes/holes to slither about. The heated right side is open.

As far as I know, he is comfortable and not stressed in this environment. He likes his middle large hiding log the most to slither around in, as well as occasionally burrow 1/2 an inch under the reptile bark.

Some babies appear to get nervous in too big a cage and they won't eat or can't seem to find the food. As long as yours is feeding and it has a hide spot a large cage is great.

As far as the big 20 gallon cage goes, make absolutely CERTAIN that the lid is held down VERY SECURE, this really means no gaps AT ALL!........I stress this point to you because "zillions" of folks loose their newly acquired snakes all the time like this, please trust me about this.

Small snakes that nobody would EVER think able to scale such a tall cage, do so by crawling up the gummy silicone in the corners of the aquarium. They do this with amazing agility. Their ventral scales, as well as dorsal scales tend to stick to it almost like glue. So if your lid has the smallest gap, or the tiniest breach of ANY KIND, it will find it's way out, and most likely will never be seen again. I say this with 41 years of extensive snake experience.

Don't EVER underestimate a snake's escaping ability!

good luck, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Baby corn snakes have even been witnessed (not by me, I'm echoing) crawling through water and then scaling the glass directly.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Very true, small snakes that don't have much body weight can also crawl up wet glass as if to defy gravity, as this pic is definite proof of.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hello all,

I trully appreciate your imput thus far. I know for pretty much a fact (and you great snake identifiers have noticed) that Orion has definate Cali. Kingsnake in him just because I remember the word being brought up when he was talking about this particular one.

This guy was a crossbreeder, at least in the sense that he liked to crossbreed different types of kingsnakes. He mentioned Honduras and Mexico and Florida and this and that when he was talking about the different genetics and family trees for his snakes. I'll be honest, sometimes I just nodded along as he went because I am a novice for now and could not keep up. I am not deffinately sure if he crossed Kingsnakes with corns or milks.

Unfortunately, I was not able to call him today because of a hectic schedule; I'm a college kid. (I was able to have time to set up a beautiful 20 gal tank for Orion though).

I will deffinately call him tomorrow and I am pretty sure that he can give me a thorough layout of what this snake consists of.

In the end, he trully is gorgeous and very friendly. A little evasive when I first pick him up but with gentle handling he settles down in minutes and is overall calm. Also if I look into his tank sometimes he'll come up to the glass and look right at me lol.

I will update you as soon as I can, and hopefully get an actual nice sized quality picture of him.

Thank you thus far!!

I'm sure you got that in the front row from Davy's Snakes. I was the vendor set up right next to him at our usual tables. Davy Vickers does a lot of crossing/hybridizing but is honest as they come. He'll give you detailed genetic history and feeding habit info about any snake he sells. But as is the case with many sellers, you don't want to assume you know everything just by the label.
That snake is Cal king x Fla king x anery Honduran milk. The lavendar part of the label doesn't refer to a recessive trait, just what the appearance sometimes looks like of these "Jurassics" as he calls them.
Hang on to that pen, you'll never find him on the internet.
Lindsay Pike
Anal Kingsnake Purist
www.hognose.com
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

WOW how did you know I bought that from Davy?! You're absolutely right. I was at the Gila Productions reptile exhibit last Sunday at the Florida State Fairgrounds in Tampa.

Yes, he was a very nice person and from what I could tell very honest and knowledgeble about his breeding. One of the reasons I bought a snake from him and not others is cause when I asked about a snake he didn't just go "Yeah it's a good snake. Ya want it?" Not to say that there wasn't plenty of sincere intellectual breeders there. I just liked his approach the best. He seemed very passionate.

Thank you for the pinning down what the exact genetic make-up of this snake is. Honestly after I got him home and got him comfy I started to get very curious about his background.

This is a great snake and maybe sometime in the future after college I might try my own breeding once I become very fimliar and knowledgeble with kingsnakes.

Thank you for your repsonse!

Okay, either invest in a good digital camera or borrow one from a friend and keep us updated on how he looks as he gets bigger. I'd love to see what that pattern does as he grows. ^_^

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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake possible mix (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)