Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just tried to ship two Geckos with the Post Office. I made the BIG mistake of being honest and labling the box FRAGILE LIVE ANIMAL In my (Ridiculous) belief that if it said that they would take MORE care of the package than if I just put PERISHABLE on it. BOY WAS I WRONG Their policy is EVERY ANIMAL SHIPMENT IS HELD FOR TWO DAY SHIPPING!
That is just pure genius on their part isn't it since we know how well animals do without food and water and the proper temperatures for two days.
The clerk told me they could not guarantee a Next Day Delivery and when I hesitated and told her I would just find another shipping method she told me "OH I WOULDN"T WORRY ABOUT IT THAT IS JUST SOMETHING WE HAVE TO SAY IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED"
THEY WILL GET THERE FINE! EXPRESS SHIPPING WITH US GETS THERE BY NOON THE NEXT DAY!"
Of course it did not get there by noon next day. It got there in two days. Of course both my leopard geckos (3 and a half month olds) got there DEAD!
If they don't want to ship live animals they should just make a policy that says WE DON"T SHIP LIVE ANIMALS but I feel they are just trying to deter us from shipping our animals with them by TORTURING AND KILLING our beloved animals!
They even bad mouthed me to my customer and the mail carrier told her it was I that ASKED FOR SECOND DAY TO SAVE MONEY
I promptly am returning the full amount to my customer after apologizing profusely (none of which the Post Office will refund to me They would not even refund the measly $17.85 they charged for shipping Express Mail, the loophole is they CHARGE THE SAME for Express next day as for Express second day)
I feel the ones I need to apologize profusely to are my two beloved geckos. Instead of sending them to a new home I sent them to their death. I FEEL JUST HORRIBLE! I suggest you never ship ANY animal with the post office and actually I only reccommend UPS

The same thing just happened to me.. save for the fact that we can't even figure out where the geckos are at. They never came through the mail and I paid $23.80 to have them shipped 2nd day to their new owner. Here it is a week later and the mail system STILL hasn't found the box. Me and the person who was recieving them have called everywhere to find out where those geckos are. No luck...They were insured so I'll get my money back but that doesn't help the 2 poor geckos who are most probably dead now. Next time Airborne Express is getting my business and to hell with the postal system

The only DOA I have ever had delivered to a customer was from the US Post Office. They will make you pay for overnight shipping, but cannot guarantee arrival. Also, it is strictly forbidden to ship live reptiles via Airborne Express, and those that do are taking a huge risk. The only company besides Delta Dash that will allow live, harmless reptiles to be shipped is UPS. Here is the link to Airborne's Shipping policy:

www.airborne.com/USSvcs/USSvcsCond.asp?nav=USServices/USShipping/ShipmentPreparation/USSvcCond&sc=acpt

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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

np
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-Bryan

Even though your Cham was a harmless reptile, apparently your UPS person wasn't! You should have reported the SOB.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

I hope his ups man isnt a harmless reptile.....lol. I agree the though, you should've reported the a$$....
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Josh
My Email

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You called him an SOB. I TOTALLY agree with you!
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1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1.0 Super Hypo-Tangerine Carrot tail
0.1.1 Whites Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Huge Black Cat
0.1.0 Cocker Spaniel
0.1.0 Brittany
0.0.1 Brother

The ONLY place I can get them shipped is airborne express. They ship them, but will not honor any claims if the animal arrives dead. I tried to ship with UPS and they looked at me like I was shipping a nuke bomb. I tried four differnet locations including the main hub(thinking it was just a bad counter rep or two) and they told me absolutely not! Fedex was so rude about refusing them that I should have filed a complaint on the lady working the counter. Airborne has been the only place I could get them shipped.

The Post Office's insurance DOES NOT include live animals. They have it in small print in the back of a 5000 page regulations book.
Good luck.
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Rick-Geckoland USA
Email me

even as a gesture. Like I'm sorry. Or consider changing their policy about shipping animals 2nd day. I would rather they not ship them at all rather than hold them a day.

I'm getting my Insurance money on live animals back from the Post Office.. Thats the reason I purchased the insurance...

UPS isn't the best either. I live in north Florida and had two small pythons mailed to me from south Florida overnight. They did not arrive for 5 days. I watched the package on the tracking feature online. They actually went all the way to Kentucky.

As for Airbourne, the website has stated that they do not ship snakes or lizards, but many locales will do it. I have called several times, and the home office says if the pickup person will accept it, then it is okay. One of the guys was scared of snakes and wouldn't do it, the others had no problem. The home office said (this was about 3 years ago), that the policy would not be changing in regard to the written rule. They just didn't like the time/temp sensative nature of the delivery. Which is odd, since so many of these companies deliver time sensitive mail overnight right to your door in the moring, or deliver perishable foods and frozen items. Fish seem to always be allowed, and they are very sensitive to temp changes. I think it is simply an overall fear that many people have for certain animals.

Matt

The problem with using a shipper that clearly states in their written policy it is against their TOS to ship specific reptiles is that if you ever (God forbid...) had a loss and wanted to make a claim, they would deny it. Just because someone "said" it was OK would not hold up, so you need to get it in writing. Good luck getting that!

QUOTE FROM AIRBONE'S POLICY:

"RESPONSIBILITY FOR NON-OBSERVANCE OF CONDITIONS RELATED TO RESTRICTED ITEMS

Responsibility for the non-observance of the conditions relating to shipments which are not acceptable for transportation or are acceptable only under certain conditions, rests upon the sender and receiver of the shipment, who jointly and severally shall be liable to Airborne Express for any loss, damage, delay, liability or penalties it may incur because of the transportation of any such shipments. Airborne Express shall not be liable for any loss, damage, destruction, or delay to any such shipment that has been mis-described by the sender."

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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

First of all sorry for your loss. Secondly I would like to say that I NEVER use the postal service! They can't even get insect shipments right much less reptiles. Another thing is next day shippined usually runs a minimum of at leat $30.00 dollars. Most of the time its closer to $35 or even more. When I ship my animals are never in transit for more than 18 hours! Not even a whole 24 hours. I accomplish this by dropping my shipments off in person right before closing time at the carrier I am using. Never had a shipment be in transit for more than 18 hours! I always pay the little extra as well to have them delivered before 11:00 a.m. the next day. Hope this helps.

I ship mine at the end of the day, and pay for 10:30 am next day delivery. I lose about $5.00 with every shipment, but it's worth it to me. It is so frustrating that these shipping companies are so "tricky" to deal with, and we can thank the jerks that do all the illegal shipping for this problem... which makes it so hard on those of us who follow the rules!
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

That is what i tried to do. I went right before the cut off time in the evening so they would not have to be in transit that long and paid for next day shipping too but it doesn't work with the post office. I have not had a problem doing it that way with UPS
I can kind of do things to help the animal if the package gets rough treatment. Packing, reinforcing, oversizing, but delays and losing track of it I can do nothing about and it sure is frustrating.

and I don't feel it was a big mistake to be honest.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

First off I'll start by say sorry for you loss. Secondly, what was the promised delivery time that was written on your express mail customer copy? Not all areas can be delivered to overnight and if the location that these animals were sent to fell into one of those areas and the appropriate box was checked then you wont get a refund. If the package was delivered after the time and date checked on your copy you are entitled to a shipping refund.
I'm also curious, did you ship the package to be held for pick up at your customer's local postal station or to be delivered to their door and how were they packaged? What was the forcasted temp for the delivery area? I ship animals via USPS weekly and have yet to lose an animal. I even shipped a group of animals down to Phoenix, AZ when the forcasted temp was 115, and it went two day. Because they were sent to be held for pick up they were inside the whole time and arrived in excellent condition. Also, when shipping via USPS you MUST label the box with its contents i.e. latin name, common name, and it doesn't hurt to include "keep out of direct sunlight, keep at room temperature". You should also include an invoice with your shipment and have your customer open the package in the presence of a postal employee. Live animals are considered parishable goods and if DOA they will refund the stated amount on the invoice. If there is no invoice and you file a claim it is automatically insured for up to $100.
UPS will ship live animals when the proper paperwork is filled out. It basically states that you are releasing liability if anything should happen to the shipment.
For those of you paying more than $17.85 to ship express to anywhere you are using oversized boxes (read my post below about our shipping methods).

If I missed something in this novel or you have any other questions, feel free to contact me,
Uriah and Tina Walker
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I have gone through 5 postal managers and all state they will not cover the death of an animal at all.
I told the lady at the front desk I wanted next day express mail and that is what I was charged.
When you lable the box as an animal they will automatically move it to second day shipping (whether you like it or not)
The weather in the destination was mild.
The weather in Florida where I am from was hot but I took the animal in the evening expecting it to leave the state that night.

I have never had to try to collect on a dead animal from USPS, but there is a reason Ron Tremper switched from shipping exclusively with UPS to USPS. Unless you have an exception with the postal service down in FL they do not automatically send packages labeled "live animal" second day. I have had several packages delivered overnight and the ones that ended up second day that were guaranteed overnight I was refunded the shipping on. I'm not trying to argue that matter with you, I'm simply puting forth my experiences with the postal service to try to help you in your situation. The fact of the matter is that live animals are considered "perishable goods" and if they were guaranteed overnight and didn't arrive until the second day (and this was the cause of death) then they should be covered for loss.
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Unfortunately, the only DOA I ever had (knock on wood) was through the USPS, and it was due to the shipment getting lost. Of course, I refunded my customer's money immediately and filed a claim. The Post Office refunded my shipping costs literally on the spot for failure to deliver as guaranteed, but flat out refused to cover the cost of the gecko.

The staff members that I dealt with across the country on this matter were great... very concerned about the welfare of the gecko, and one from the east coast even worked overtime to continue the coordinated search efforts with my post office here on the west coast. I was told by the postmasters at both Post Offices that every office and location has different policies in regard to shipping live animals of any kind... especially reptiles, and this can change at any moment depending on our National Security level of the day! Jeeeeeze!

This also holds true for airports, where the vast majority of U.S. Mail passes through on regular domestic flights. Some will allow reptiles, and some will not, and sometimes shipments just sit out on the tarmack in the heat or cold while some employee tries to sort it out. I personally find this a very time-consuming and frustrating effort to figure out for every single shipment, to contact each and every office and airport the shipments pass through.

So........ needless to say, I gave up on USPS for shipping my geckos, and IMHO feel that UPS is the lesser of all the evils available so far.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Ron is still shipping with United Parcel Service...
Ron's Ordering Information

I told them that animals were perishable goods but they are saying it does not matter they are still not covered. They called me back and are considering refunding me for shipping only because the clerk told me verbally it would be there next day (they pulled the tape of the transaction to double check)
The manager told me they DO hold live animal shipments an extra day and that has been their policy since shortly after Sept 11th.
He also told me they DO ship live reptiles (they have to be small and harmless and I don't think snakes are included)
I am not arguing with you either. I am just trying to inform people that live animal shipments are held an extra day and that an innocent animal may perish.
I am only posting this because I may save someone a little greif.
Everyone sends their animals out how they think is best for their own reasons.

np

When I asked a local Post Office about shipping geckos through USPS they said that the policy is they do not ship reptiles.

I'm not sure why the woman you spoke to allowed you to ship the little guys as the one near me is against it completely.

Sorry to hear about the loss. I lost one through shipping too once.

The PO system is RIFE with self righteous and by the seat of the pants regulators.

Steven

https://sss-web.usps.com/gxg/jsps/showStdProhibitions.jsp

It's listed right in there that 'Animals, Eggs, Larva, Live insects, Live spiders' are prohibited to ship through USPS

Then how would one explain all the millions of crickets, meal worms, super worms, wax worms and other miriad creatures including chicks that get shipped every year by them? Some such that you can actually SEE the insects in the package. Plus all the animals that I have shipped and received quite openly.

Seems very odd. Is that just a gotcha in case something goes wrong, I wonder?

Steven
Royal Gold Reptiles

And the fact that the people shipping the animals out would go elsewhere with the business may be a bit of a factor in that too.

I'm really sorry that the animals perished. I, too, have had some die in transit about 4 yrs ago, but it was my ignorance of shipping policies that allowed myself to get 'taken' into reimbursing someone for not being home to receive the animal, and shipping to Alaska in the first place. There were many factors that went into the transaction, but the bottom line was that the poor little guy (1 of 3) didn't make it.

Check out 526.1e at www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

USPS DOES allow shipment of harmless reptiles; excluding snakes. UPS DOES allow shipment of reptiles; excluding snakes, with prior written approval. To my knowledge, none of the others except Delta Dash accept reptiles. I've shipped 6-8 times this year through USPS next day without any problems.

USPS will tell you when you go to ship the animals if they can do it in 1 day or not; thier computer system should be able to tell them(if they've got computers there). If they tell you that they cannot guarantee next day, YOU DON'T SHIP THEM. Find someone who can. If the USPS cannot guarantee next day, it's because either the shipper or receiver are too rural, or away from the distro point to make sure they'll make it there in time. If you come across a postal clerk who does not know the regulations (see link above), have them check the regs and do thier job, regardless of how they feel about reptiles or any other animals.

Good luck with your future transactions
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Rob Jenkins
Have you seen the GeckoCam?
Buy Geckos Here
Email Me

I don't have time right now to read every post in this thread but want to comment.

I am sorry for the apparent loss.

I have NEVER had a serious problem shipping with the post office. I have had late shipments (by minutes or hours normally, only one a day late) and have only not been able to collect on one of them due to a weather delay.

I have gotten packages that said a variety of things on them from nothing to FRAGILE LIVE REPTILES - GECKOS! The worst package damage I ever received came via FedEx.

I seriously doubt that the PO system is out to kill all reptiles, let alone all animals that get shipped.

The reason they charge the same for 2nd day Express is because that is still the fastest delivery method to the area in question. They just cannot get the package to some areas fast enough and they are always up front about that. They may say something like "It MAY get there faster, but we cannot guarantee it." If it is a critical shipment that should be your clue to pick up your package and go to a different carrier.

As a last comment, this story just sounds SO familiar for some reason.

Steven
Royal Gold Reptiles

most post offices will NOT even take them if they know what it is

are retarded, and have different policies for different locations. That REALLY shouldn't be like that. Damn. I am NEVER shipping an animal. I will drive to California (I'm in NE) to give someone a baby, rather than risk a death!
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1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1.0 Super Hypo-Tangerine Carrot tail
0.1.1 Whites Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Huge Black Cat
0.1.0 Cocker Spaniel
0.1.0 Brittany
0.0.1 Brother