Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what do people use on their cage floors. Currently im on forest bark or jungle earth flooring, i find there keep good humidity and lets the snakes burrow a bit (thought i had lost my first baby brb when he decided he liked to burrow not go into his nice moss hide one problem i do have though is finding their droppings though, the white stuff easy enough, but not the more solid stuff, seems to just become invisible in the bark. Not so bad with the big ones, but certainly is with the young ones. Does anyone use a lighter colour kind of bark or shaving? And can you keep your humidity ok? I understand why people use newspaper, and i would if i had heaps of snakes, but i much prefer the more natural look, the pics paulbuck posted were awesome.

Also i had a bit of a weird question, i read that you should keep babies in quite small containers, as it makes them feel more secure, well what the hell happens in the wild, they must freak out like anything?? Does anyone have babies in big cages or group together with other like this?

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Dave

1.2 BRBs

On the way if all the shipping works
0.1 Anery BRB
1.0 66% poss het anery BRB
1,1 het hypo BRB

ive wondered about this myself and after asking around alot i took everyones opinions and came to this conclusion...

most small snakes are kept well in small cages for a couple reasons

-the smaller the cage the easier it is to maintain heat and humidity

also more for breeders who have alot of snakes
-smaller cages are easy to keep clean
-and you can fit allot more small cages in a snake room than you can big cages (again more for breeders who have many clucthes and not much space)

okay now the arguement... lol yes in the wild they have allot of space...

i think anyone who says a small snake should not be kept in a large cage is mostly worried about inproper husbandry, i agree with them. heat and humidity are important everyone will tell you that, but hides are also important and IMO NEED to be provided every where in the cage. most snakes are most comfortable in the smallest cramped place

now its just common sense to say thats easier to do in a small cage, however if you CAN provide proper temps, humidity, and multiple hides... you could keep a small snake in a 50'x100' barn if you wanted to....

thats my take on it just IMO
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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
0.1 col redtail boa (Dixie-my baby girl)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--brazillian rainbow boas 1 female for sure
2 or 3? maybe a breeding pair?
-- bearded dragon for the wifey my list got to big...

more distant future hopefuls
1 or 2 of each maybe a breeding pair?
--anery boa (ooooh)
--jungle carpet python (love to have 1 or 2)
--dumeril boa (ahhhh)

slightly more wishful thinking
--hypo br rainbow boa (love em)
--anery br rainbow boa (oooh even better!!)
--motely boa (gorgeous!!)

Hey Matt,
I use the small decorative bark from Home Depot (western forest products is what it is composed of) as a base layer and then cover it with a thick layer of green moss (again Home Depot, the stuff they use in potted plants). It holds moisture really well and the snakes just burrow under the moss and seem pretty content. Whats really nice about this type of substrate is it affords the snakes a hiding spot anywhere in the cage so they can sellect the optimum temperature they need at the time. Your right about the feces being difficult to find. What I do is stick my head in every other day or so and smell; a healthy BRB feeding on rats does'nt give off much smell when they deficate but you can usually smell it. Then I just search. It is not unusual for me to find dried up poop on occasion. This type of substrate has lots of little critters that seem to break down the crap so its not a big deal to me. Every 3 or 4 months I change out everything.
I agree with Stephen about the caging for baby BRB's. Its just easier all round.
Hope this helps and thanks for the compliment about the pics.
Paul

yeah i will have to look into the home depot direction. Though i live in finland and the range on those kind of things compared to the states is pretty pathetic. And i was worried about getting some stuff that had been chemically treated.

Also about the smaller cages being easier to temp regulate, would it not be the other way around? Ie in a smaller tub, is it not much harder to give a temp gradient?

Also paul you seem to have two adults living together, is this ever a problem? Ie i have 2 adult females that a bought together, and they have lived together since. I now have many more cages, and can seperate if needed. But i wonder if there is any need? They have distinct markings, so know which is eating what if any problems.

Cheers
Dave

Dave,
I'm not sure, but what Home Depot (or Lowe's, Orchard any of the big retailers here in the States) seems to offer for garden bedding is regional. Here in the west it seems like 'western forest products' is composed of fir or pine bark (I worried about the chance of pine being in the mix because of the oils but hav'nt had problems yet).
Your right about a small enclosure enabling only a small range in temps but if you dial in a safe range, such as 75 to 80 for a baby BRB, you'll not have problems. The larger the enclosure the wider the gradient. I have a fairly large enclosure (6'Lx4'Hx3'D) and the temp range is about 65 to 90 degrees F (varies with the season). Most often I find my BRB's where the temps are in the high 70's but they often are in the high 60's, commonly in the low 80's and infrequently in the high 80's (gravid female temp gunned at 91-92). While cruising about they will spend time where the temps are in the high 80's.
I actually maintain 4 adults in the above described enclosure. This is something I do not recommend but I've not experienced any problems (yet). Watching the interaction I find highly interesting. Problems that could occur are sick animals spreading a virus, a dominant animal restricting the behavior of subordinants, not knowing who passed an unhealthy smelling feces, exc.. I feed the adults in a separate container (sweater box sized rubbermaid).
Sorry for the long post,
Paul

yeah i will have to look into the home depot direction. Though i live in finland and the range on those kind of things compared to the states is pretty pathetic. And i was worried about getting some stuff that had been chemically treated.

Also about the smaller cages being easier to temp regulate, would it not be the other way around? Ie in a smaller tub, is it not much harder to give a temp gradient?

Also paul you seem to have two adults living together, is this ever a problem? Ie i have 2 adult females that a bought together, and they have lived together since. I now have many more cages, and can seperate if needed. But i wonder if there is any need? They have distinct markings, so know which is eating what if any problems.

Cheers
Dave

nah, the longer the post the better, always interested in anything new that i can learn. Will get the substrate checked out in the next few days, what are the subsrates that should be avoided at all costs though? Ie you were worried about the pine.
And still trying to work out a solution for 4 babies that are coming next week sometime, a fellow breeder is picking them up from the Hamm show in germany. Only time i could get them, but am in middle of renovating house, just hope is gets done in time. Think will try a large rubbermaid, until ready.

You mentioned the 75~80degress for the young ones, i know i need much higher humidity for them, what about the temp gradient, do they need a wider range, or can cope with less of a range?

Cheers
Dave

Dave,
I've been told that Cedar and Pine are no-no's. If it was me with 4 babies coming in I would house them individually in shoe box sized rubbermaids, white paper towel on the bottom, only a couple of holes for ventilation to keep the humidity high, water on the cool side. Keep them in a separate room from your other snakes for quaranteen (see posts on this). If the condensation disapates from the sides of the container splash some water on the paper towel. Put hides on both warm and cool sides. Keep the temps around 70 on cool side, 80 on warm side and don't be surprised if the little ones stay for the most part on the cool side. For heat you can go with UTH (under tank heater) controlled by some sort of thermostat. When they get larger and you get them into a larger enclosure I'd shoot for a temp range of 70-85. Can't miss. If I'm raising a little BRB I feed them every 4 days or so.
Good luck,
Paul

nah, the longer the post the better, always interested in anything new that i can learn. Will get the substrate checked out in the next few days, what are the subsrates that should be avoided at all costs though? Ie you were worried about the pine.
And still trying to work out a solution for 4 babies that are coming next week sometime, a fellow breeder is picking them up from the Hamm show in germany. Only time i could get them, but am in middle of renovating house, just hope is gets done in time. Think will try a large rubbermaid, until ready.

You mentioned the 75~80degress for the young ones, i know i need much higher humidity for them, what about the temp gradient, do they need a wider range, or can cope with less of a range?

ok, and what size should i be looking at for their small containers? Basically im pretty competent now with my bigger ones, but guess you always worry more about the babies. yeah was gonna house them in another room intially, as they came from a large breeder via a reptile show, guess have to be very careful. does anyone use some kind of mite disfenctant straight away on new snakes that they bring in? Or only if see problems? How long should new snakes be quarintined anyway?

Better stock up on pinkies again!!!!!

Dave

I currently house my cb07's on newspaper and they are housed in a rack system so humidity is not a problem. My adults on the other hand are housed in 4ft PVC cages, I was using newspaper but could not get enough humidity..and my Brazilians were paying the price with bad sheds.. I have now switched to a mix of Cypress Mulch and something similar to BED-A-BEAST-- but a different brand, I like the mix because they can did around and keeps the cage very humid.

Thanks,
Bill