Reptile & Amphibian Forums

or rather owner of nervous pueblan

i know that they are skittish to begin with, but mine NEVER comes out of her hide. and when picked up (i.e. to feed) it's musk flail, musk flail, repeat. i have a lot of aspen bedding, because i think it makes her more comfortable, but i still would like to SEE her once in a while. its ben two weeks so she is pretty well settled in to her new home. lots of hides hot side, cool side (hollow cork logs) moist hide (old ceramic toothbrush holder, don't laugh. its the perfect size and well suited to the job plus it looks good and was free). she doesn't try to escape anymore, (which she tried constantly in her old 10 gallon tank) i have her in a five now. but she is buried mid tank at the bottom of about 2" of aspen. She fed last night, tho when i put her in her feeding container she was wriggling against the side (she couldn't get up the wall) so fast it actually made a humming sound. but when the mouse was presented she focused like a laser on it. took her three tries, first time (i was listening to some music (quietly of course) and a bon jovi song came on, she instantly started to spit out the mouse, had to grab the ipod.. next, next, next, pink floyd.. ok, she settled down. i guess not a big jon bon fan. lol
but seriously the front limbs of the critter were giving her some trouble so i had to "streamline" the mouse a bit, but my point is that even after trying (and failing, to the point of having to spit the mouse out) her feeding response was so strong that she hit it a third time instantly (after i re-warmed it in some hot water for a few seconds. I doubt she is stressed (unless i try to pick her up), or sick, i guess she is thermoregulating fine. i would hope if she was too cool she would move to a warmer location and vice versa. like i said plenty of hides and aspen thru out the tank. well any help appreciated.
thanks
Mike
BTW
this is not my only snake, I have a BP who loves being handled, and a mex king, who is a musk machine but handles well, and is very calm when being handled.
m

Been breeding these for over 25 years and have yet to find one that's handable, but then I rarely handle any snake except for housekeeping, even my BP's.

Best way to feed hatchlings is to use a covered paper coffee cup and place cup inside cage or another container; leave overnight if you have to. Live pinks work fast, df may take longer, depending on preference. If you like to watch your snake feed, pueblans are not up that alley. Also don't handle prey items with hands; forceps.

Mike

Well, milksnakes(especially young ones), are just generally nervous by nature, and some can be a little more skittish than others. But the good news is they tend to gradually settle down, and stop musking and wanting to bolt out of your hand as they get a little older and put on more size. Just let them be, and continue to hide mostly, this is just the way milks are "encoded" instinctfully.

As a general rule, around the time they are yearlings and older, you should start seeing a noticeable difference in their attitudes. Just be patient, and they tend to get much better.

Oh,.....one good word of advice, and that is DO NOT handle them for about 48 hours after a meal, handling them before this time, often ends up with the nervous snake regurgitating the meal.

best regards, ~Doug

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

yeah i never handle my snakes for at least 48 hours after feeding. I'm guessing the only thing worse than snake poop is snake vomit lol.
mike

Well, doesnt sound like you took my advice the first time....A 5 gallon is still about 10x TOO BIG for a hatchling milk. THINK about where you find these animals....under stuff. Ask anyone if they have ever found a milksnake out in the open...I would be the only place this has happened would be at night crossing a road(not exactly the best place to watch for em).
If you want to see the snake more, take the aspen out of the tank and replace with paper towels. Then put a deli cup full of aspen in the tank. You will still be able to see parts of him through the deli...and you can feed in the same tank!
If you arent into this I suggest taking a real nice picture of him and when you want to look him you have a picture....Milks are not ball pythons, THANK GOD.

The addition of Pink Floyd is a new wrinkle, I might adopt that idea but hope the kids love my singing!
Here's the truth: we milkheads don't see many of our snakes either. Give it a couple years to mature and your Pueblan will become more handleable and accustomed to feeding from tongs or coming out when he's hungry. Most milks settle down eventually.
Your set up sounds fine and the snake is feeding - Dmong hit all the nails directly on the head and I can't add much more to his advice.
I get annoyed by the poo spray too - it interrupts my singing.
Jeff

the previous reply was for Jeff Schofield not Jeff Hardwick, sorry for the confusion
M

Jeff- You can never go wrong with Floyd.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Jeff,
you have lost all credibility with me, your last post was so bad it was deleted! My snakes have hides, small ones where they can feel secure and safe. in fact my pueblan is in one of those right now digesting its meal from last night. they also have a choice of hides with different temps and humidities. i don't expect the snake to display itself on a nice rock for my viewing pleasure, however i do keep other colubrids, and they do move about at night and in the evening. In its natural environment i would expect that the snake would roam about a bit during periods when it is normally active. and i have seen some of that with my pueblan in its tank. I don't know what your motivation is for keeping snakes is but i suspect you are a breeder. so stacks of deli cups and rope lights, probably make sense for you. My snake is a pet so a naturalistic type setup with a minimum of plastic is preferred. and yes watching said pet interact with its environment is part of that. You do what works for you, but don't tell me again to stuff my snake into a plastic cup for two years.
mike

>>> "i don't expect the snake to display itself on a nice rock for my viewing pleasure"

>>> "but don't tell me again to stuff my snake into a plastic cup for two years."

*** Great choice of words,...that was too dang funny!..hahaha!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I might have been harsh toward you for not improving your keeping but I promise you I got no entertainment from it. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible so there was no confusion. It didnt sound from your post that you had learned anything from your experience, I was trying to rectify that. I hope in a small way I helped, that was my intention. Tonite I had the camera out and I took pics specifically for you on what I was talking about. I hope you see that my intention was a bit sarcastic, but I think a little humor will liven up the forum a bit. If you dont like my advise dont take it, but I want to show you a method that works without the loss of wives and jobs. I hope you can see your way to still appreciate that. Jeff

This first pic is of cups on the rope light,note that if the cup is on one side of the light it has food in it, on the other it doesnt(cuts down on the lost food-ie stink).

Note the deli cup, the dixie cup, and the pretty, easy to look at snake inside..

No ill will, this guy has been in cups since hatched in 06 and he looks pretty happy to me,lol.

While I included some self deprecating stuff in my other post to balance my criticizm, I suspect the naked reference got the post deleted. NOTE TO EDITOR-I HOPE THATS WHAT IT WAS. Now you dont have to listen to anyone else's opinions, but you cant tell me that any pueblan milksnake would ever be found in aspen bedding, under a pine bark hide, or drinking out of a ceramic cup in a glass container. I suggest my substrate is as natural as yours, you simply havent accepted it yet.We make these set ups FOR US, not the snake! Yes, you can make any setup in the world for your pueblan. Its not a bad thing to be a breeder by the way.....But if you want to look at him and make it harder for him to escape...here ya go.

Jeff,
What size deli cups are those you're using. I couldn't quite tell from the pictures and may want to use a similar setup in the future.
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1.1.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Thayeri MSP
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
0.1.0 Girlfriend, Caucasius Mexicana, Fiancee Phase

I prefer that size because you dont have to adjust the height of the dixie cup inside. Another thing thats good is when you put the paper towel in its folded so the snake can crawl into it and bury itself much like a shredded substrate.Easy to clean, easy to move, cheap, all good things for me,lol. Thanks,Jeff

hope that works

Please reread my posts and see that I have now gone out of my way to help you through your problem more than twice. Yes I poked fun at you, but I poked fun at myself too. Not everyone is going to congratulate you for finding your lost snake, not everyone should. LEARN from this experience please.....

All these guys have given good advice. Take heart and enjoy your snake a little at a time when it does come out and when you maintain the cage. I have two female pueblans and they have both calmed down a bit. Both are over 30" long and are not handled frequently. I use a rack with Sterilite tubs and spend some time in the snake room at night working on my computer with the lights off. They almost always come out and cruise around their cages at that time. But as little snakes go, the other guys posts are dead on. Milks are nervous. Some of mine won't eat if I'm present. My hondurans prefer to hide between layers of newspaper, and I just place their meals in there. Most of them eat fine that way. I can't say whether or not any of mine like Bon Jovi, but they're all keen on Whitesnake. j/k

As a side note, if you want something bright that does "come out and play" a little more, you may want to try a MSP thayeri. I have one that is my snake of choice for hanging out with. He's prettier AND more laid back than my ball python. He's curious and likes to move around, but he also settles down and rides on my wrist like a bracelet.

Good luck!
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1.1.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Thayeri MSP
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
0.1.0 Girlfriend, Caucasius Mexicana, Fiancee Phase

I'm not really so worried about handling, (would be nice but NBD) but it is great to see them cruise around, I already have an awesome laid back mexican black king, very cool. my milk eats like a beast even when i'm right there. BTW since he has eaten he seems a lot calmer and is in one of his hides instead of buried under 2" of aspen in the furthest corner of the tank. and yes guys thanks for all the advice.
mike

When I had a Pueblan, I found that he came out to stroll around, sit on things, soak in the water bowl, etc. often enough that I at least could usually SEE him each day without having to specifically dig him up, when I was keeping him in a tub, but not when I kept him in a tank. it was big tub, with lots of floor space, and it was clear plastic, but it was nonetheless a tub. The top was low and was one solid color, rather than open screen, so I guess he felt like he had enough overhead cover to feel secure. I've seen others that seemed to be fine in tanks, but tanks did not work for him. Low-ceilinged clear tubs did. Just saying.
The only thing about tubs I don't like is that they're harder to escape-proof than tanks because the plastic is flexible. What I did was cut a rectangle frame out of plywood so I had smething non-flexible on top that I coul;d weight easily. Others can no doubt suggest something a bit less technologically illiterate, but it worked.
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0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

mine definitely likes the closed in feeling, back and two sides are covered in heavy duty black posterboard, and i have a piece that can go on the top as well. seems to work, but we'll see as he becomes accustomed to the new set up.
Mike

I tried keeping one of my puebs in a glass tank once. She totally freaked out and thrashed around so violently that I feared she would injure herself, so I took her out immediately. My other pueb used to hang out in a glass aquarium with no problem. In fact, she would come out of her hide and watch TV. I'm serious; it must have been the motion on the screen because she would just sit and watch with me.
I guess it depends on the individual snake.
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1.1.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Thayeri MSP
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
0.1.0 Girlfriend, Caucasius Mexicana, Fiancee Phase