Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to get some experience with hot snakes. i'm not in a hurry, i would just be satisfied to sit and watch, talk, or carry out mundane tasks, (cleaning out water bowls, or whatever). that wouldn't put me in direct contact with any venomous reptile. Eventually i'd like to get a hot snake permit. but like i said i'm not in a hurry, and am willing to help out with the grunt work for free. I'm not some kid who is into the whole macho snake thing. i'm 36, a professional, a husband, and a father, who happens to love snakes. Anyway the offer is out there I'd really love to have someone show me the ropes so to speak.
cheers
Mike
Laurel MD

BTW what do you have to do to get a permit to keep non-native venomous reptiles in MD?

I asked the DNR for the same info via their website, but have not gotten back to me (i assume its because my telegraph is in the shop). knowing the Peoples Republic of Maryland, just by asking the question they already assume I have squirming piles of spitting cobras and gaboon vipers all over the house, and are going to raid any moment lol.
m

Non-native hots were always illegal because state law (not reptile laws) does not allow for venomous snakes to be imported into the state (i.e. brought in across state lines). So while the reptile laws never specifically banned non-native hots, the importing of them into the state kept people from owning them legally. Of the two native species (timbers and copperheads), only copperheads were really legal to own by the average person (up to 4 without a reptile permit). However, it is also illegal to buy/sell/trade/barter hots within MD so that meant technically you could only have wild caught copperheads that you caught yourself. Timbers are an endangered species so not legal to go catch/possess any of them. Sadly, even the ability for a person to keep copperheads has been rudely taken away as DNR has seen fit to revise their reptile laws late last year and those revisions went into effect this past February. DNR has declared Copperheads to be an "endangered species" now (i.e. moved from List A to List C) and that now makes it illegal to catch them or possess them (unless you can acquire a very hard to get scientific collectors permit which is given only to bona-fide institutions). People who already owned copperheads legally under the old laws have until March 31, 2008 to declare in writing to DNR a request for each of their copperheads to be grandfathered in and this request once granted (for each individual snake) is NOT transferable. This means under the grandfather clause you cannot replace a legally grandfathered copperhead with a new one and expect the new one to be legal because it won't be.

Also, if I am not mistaken I believe that DC has for a long time baned possession of venomous snakes. I think even iguanas are illegal there. lol
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DP

so basically no hots in Md. period.

how about rear fanged, like the hognose (native) , false water cobra, mangrove etc?
thanks
Mike

>>so basically no hots in Md. period.
>>
>>how about rear fanged, like the hognose (native) , false water cobra, mangrove etc?
>>thanks
>>Mike

Basically no hots period. MD only considers certain venomous snakes to be venomous (see actual code regulations further below). If a snake does not fall under any of those individual groups, then you can have it.

As for hognose snakes, Eastern hognose snakes ARE regulated because they are native to Maryland. As part of the new revisions to the herp laws, they were removed from List A and put onto List B. What this generally means is. Without a reptile permit, a person may only own ONE eastern hognose. If you wish to own more than one, you must apply for a $25 reptile permit (which must be renewed at the end of every year and records turned in as well). Additionally, you are now only allowed to have ONE wild caught eastern hognose (the old law allowed for up to 4). So, any easterns you possess you really had better be able to show proof to DNR (upon request) that the animals are captive bred and/or were legally obtained outside of the state per that state's regulations. If you cannot show proof that the animal is indeed captive bred or legally obtained outside of the state then they will automatically assume it is wild caught and if you are caught with more than one "WC" hognose, you are in violation of the law.

"...you are also required to maintain a certificate of origin, a bill of sale, or other documentation to prove that the individuals of any species or subspecies of reptiles and amphibians in Lists A and B above were legally obtained.

...A certificate of origin, bill of sale, or other documentation must include:
1. Common name
2. Scientific name
3. Number of individuals by species
4. Date of transaction
5. Name and address of seller, including Maryland permit number, when applicable. "

For individuals who owned more than one eastern hognose prior to the new laws going into effect, they have until March 31, 2008 to apply for a grandfather request for each of those snakes. If those individuals didn't meet the requirements under the old law for needing a reptile permit, with these new changes in possession limits (ie possessed 4 or fewer hognoses), they would now need to also apply for a reptile permit.

Annotated Code of Maryland
Criminal Law
TITLE 10. CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, CONDUCT, AND SENSIBILITIES
Subtitle 6. Crimes Relating to Animals.
§10-621. Import, offer, or transfer of dangerous animal.

[…cut out some parts]

(b) A person may not import into the State, offer for sale, trade, barter, possess, breed, or exchange a live:
...(1) fox, skunk, raccoon, or bear;
...(2) caiman, alligator, or crocodile;
...(3) member of the cat family other than the domestic cat;
...(4) hybrid of a member of the cat family and a domestic cat if the hybrid weighs over 30 pounds;
...(5) member of the dog family other than the domestic dog;
...(6) hybrid of a member of the dog family and a domestic dog;
...(7) nonhuman primate, including a lemur, monkey, chimpanzee, gorilla, orangutan, marmoset, loris, or tamarin; or
...(8) poisonous snake in the family groups of Hydrophidae, Elapidae, Viperidae, or Crotolidae.
(c)...(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to:
.........(i) if an individual, a fine not exceeding $1,000; or
.........(ii) if not an individual, a fine not exceeding $10,000.
......(2) The provisions of this section may be enforced by:
.........(i) any State or local law enforcement officer; or
.........(ii) the local animal control authority for the jurisdiction where the violation occurs.
(d)...(1) An animal specified in subsection (b) of this section may be immediately seized if:
.........(i) there is probable cause to believe that the possession of the animal is in violation of this section; or
.........(ii) the animal poses a risk to public health or public safety.

[…cut out remainder of this section]
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DP

thanks for all the legwork on this one i've basically given up on owning or being mentors into hots in MD. but you did say something interesting the law specified four groups of snakes ( I noted poisonous not venomous, but not likely to make a difference to the DNR official handcuffing you) crots, elipids, vipers, and one other one i think (pardon my spelling) but what venomous reptiles DON't fall under those 4 species?
thanks
Mike
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Jayne "The Hero of Canton", Ball Python
Edmund Slackbladder, Mexican Kingsnake
El Diablo "They haven't built a cage I can't get out of" Pueblan Milksnake
(Currently serving 25 to life in a Maryland Supermax)

>>thanks for all the legwork on this one i've basically given up on owning or being mentors into hots in MD. but you did say something interesting the law specified four groups of snakes ( I noted poisonous not venomous, but not likely to make a difference to the DNR official handcuffing you) crots, elipids, vipers, and one other one i think (pardon my spelling) but what venomous reptiles DON't fall under those 4 species?
>>thanks
>>Mike
>>-----

Legwork needed to be done anyway. It's actually a part of my job to help educate the general public regarding wildlife and often it means telling them what they can or can't own (despite their best intentions to the contrary). I was already doing a lot of the research of comparing the old/new laws and doing a summary to hand out to other coworkers so they can be better informed within our county parks/recreation service.

There are plenty of 'hot' colubrids to be found that do not fall under the MD venomous groups (things like boiga, boomslangs, twig snakes, mussurana, hognoses, diadophis, etc.). Below is maybe not a completely up-to-date listing of genus's found under the 4 venomous groups listed as illegal in Maryland, but in general, it's a good start to know what NOT to get.

Class Reptilia
Order Squamata
Suborder Serpentes

Family Elapidae - (i.e.: sea snakes, cobras, kraits, corals)
Synonym(s): Hydrophidae / Hydrophiidae

Genus:
* Acalyptophis
* Acanthophis
* Aipysurus
* Aspidelaps
* Aspidomorphus
* Astrotia
* Austrelaps
* Boulengerina
* Bungarus
* Cacophis
* Calliophis
* Demansia
* Dendroaspis
* Denisonia
* Drysdalia
* Echiopsis
* Elapognathus
* Elapsoidea
* Emydocephalus
* Enhydrina
* Ephalophis
* Furina
* Hemachatus
* Hemiaspis
* Hemibungarus
* Homoroselaps
* Hoplocephalus
* Hydrelaps
* Hydrophis
* Kerilia
* Kolpophis
* Lapemis
* Laticauda -- Sea Kraits, Seakraits
* Leptomicrurus
* Loveridgelaps
* Micropechis
* Micruroides -- Sonoran Coralsnakes, Western Coral Snakes
* Micrurus -- American Coral Snakes, American Coralsnakes
* Naja
* Notechis
* Ogmodon
* Ophiophagus
* Oxyuranus
* Parahydrophis
* Paranaja
* Parapistoclamus
* Pelamis -- Yellow-bellied Sea Snakes, Yellow-bellied Seasnakes
* Praescutata
* Pseudechis
* Pseudohaje
* Pseudonaja
* Rhinoplocephalus
* Salomonelaps
* Simoselaps
* Sinomicrurus
* Suta
* Thalassophis
* Toxicocalamus
* Tropidechis
* Vermicella
* Walterinnesia

Family Viperidae - (i.e.: vipers, pit vipers, rattlesnakes)
Synonym(s): Crotalidae

Subfamily - Azemiopinae
Genus:
* Azemiops

Subfamily - Causinae
Genus:
* Causus

Subfamily - Crotalinae
Genus:
* Agkistrodon -- Copperheads, Cottonmouths
* Atropoides
* Bothriechis
* Bothriopsis
* Bothrops
* Calloselasma
* Cerrophidion
* Crotalus
* Deinagkistrodon
* Gloydius
* Hypnale
* Lachesis
* Ophryacus
* Ovophis
* Porthidium
* Sistrurus -- Massasaugas, Pigmy Rattlesnakes, Pygmy Rattlesnakes
* Trimeresurus
* Tropidolaemus

Subfamily - Viperinae
Genus:
* Adenorhinos
* Atheris
* Bitis
* Cerastes
* Daboia
* Echis
* Eristicophis
* Macrovipera
* Montatheris
* Proatheris
* Pseudocerastes
* Vipera

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DP

So is there anything on the books that mentions Atractaspidae? It seems like they don't mention it in the list of families of venomous snakes, and they are in fact venomous.

>>So is there anything on the books that mentions Atractaspidae? It seems like they don't mention it in the list of families of venomous snakes, and they are in fact venomous.

If Atractaspidae has never at any time fallen under any of those 4 groups taxonomically then that could be a viable loophole. But with them being "vipers" in common name versus scientific name, DNR and/or the state might not care to listen to the argument that those snakes do not fall within the 4 state groups in the Annotated Code and nail ya anyway.

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DP

FYI, it wasn't DNR that changed the laws on venomous, it was a an updated version of the previous law passed about two years ago, a law that was backed by the HSUS. As a result, DNR had to update their regs to reflect the new law. Although List C generally means endangered or threatened, I guess it's also generic for "thou shalt not possess". DNR is not considering copperheads threatened or endangered, you just can't have them UNLESS you had them before the law went into affect AND you had them grandfathered.

If someone had eastern hognosed snakes (more than one) before the new regs went into affect on March 31, 2008, they should have proof that they had the snakes before then, and then they could apply for a permit. (Same for terrpains, midland and eastern painteds, stinpots, mud, and northern redbellies.)

Katrina